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Thread: Newbie forming my buying vision... am I crazy?

  1. #11
    cub builder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbutler455 View Post
    I have friends who buy completely restored vintage cars and then just take them to shows. That is not me. By the time i'm done I know everything there is to know about that vehicle and have laid hands on every nut and bolt with the exception of engine and trans rebuilds. People who know me say I am anal about my projects. The good news is that my cars and motorcycles are gorgeous and flawlessly reliable. I only restore cars and motorcycles that are significant and deserve to be returned to as-new condition.

    Your advice makes a lot of sense relative to older vintage aircraft, but will I be able to be as hands on as I want? For me owning and restoring the plane will be as much fun as flying it. Getting a private license isn't an obstacle. Doing my own work and learning all about the airplane is important. That is what led me to experimental planes.

    Can I work on vintage planes?
    I always did before I got my A&P; vintage, contemporary, and EAB. As others said, find a mechanic you can work with and you can work on most anything.

    FWIW, I live about 120 miles east of you, am newly retired (last week) and have my A&P ticket. I have supervised numerous ground up restorations where the owners did practically all the work, but you will also need an IA to sign the inspections on the 337s and annual. Certificated aircraft have a number of restrictions in that you can't just do something because you decide that's how you want it done; even if it does make sense. It has to meet the Type Certificate, Supplemental Type Certificate, or previously approved data, all of which have different paths for approval. Having an A&P to work with is as much about having someone to guide you through the paperwork maze and to keep you from heading down a path with work that isn't likely to get FAA Approval as it is about making sure you do safe, high quality work. I need to fly over to Gastons for breakfast sometime in the next few weeks. Maybe we can meet up for breakfast for some one-on-one, more detailed discussion. PM me and we'll exchange email addresses if you're interested in some discussion.
    Last edited by cub builder; 12-18-2017 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbutler455 View Post
    - I also like the feeling of motion, of performance. Screaming around corners in a loud vintage motorcycle or sports car is tremendous fun. (but carefully)
    I hope you find the aircraft thatís right for you, but I hope you abandon the goal of ďthe feeling of motion, of performance, screaming around corners.Ē You have to be close to the terrain to experience that feeling. Iíve read too many accident reports of pilots hitting obstacles that way. Iím sure they were all trying to be careful, but were surprised by an invisible gust or invisible wire or whatever. Flying through the middle of the air is exciting enough for me. If not for you, I hope you keep your motorcycle.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbutler455 View Post
    Doing my own work and learning all about the airplane is important.

    That is what led me to experimental planes.

    Can I work on vintage planes?
    Good luck Brock! Be great to have you in the aviation community.

    Working on a vintage plane, you'll have to locate a mech that is willing to work with you on that. Even with restoring/completing a homebuilt, unless you are eligible for a repairman certificate, you'll have to find a mech willing to perform the annual condition inspection.

    Not clear if you are more interested in flying vs building/restoring. If you want to fly, I'd suggest locating an instructor and/or school that can do flight training and focus on that first. Can learn about planes along the way and what you might like to own. If you want to dig into a construction or restoration project right off, narrow down your objective and go for it. Just don't undertake a restoration project with the idea you'll make a boatload of $$$ from your efforts. Labor returns are about zero and replace/upgrades return about 30-40 cents on the dollar.

  4. #14

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    Cubbuilder. I'm beginning to think God wants me to do this. I can't tell you how pleased I was to see your post. I plan to join the EAA chapters in Mountain Home and Springfield after the holidays. And YES, I will meet you for breakfast. Just pick a time and a place. I am retired (63) and financially secure, so I am asking myself how I want to spend the rest of my life. What, in addition to my great family and travel, do I want to do? I am sending PM. Email and message are both reliable ways to reach me. Thanks and have a merry Christmas. Brock.
    Last edited by bbutler455; 12-19-2017 at 12:23 PM. Reason: error

  5. #15

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    Thanks to everyone that took the time to respond to an uneducated (i'm learning) newbie. I LOVE the idea of a tandem Aeronaca/Champion/Bellanca with a more powerful 90+ hp motor. If pressed, today, I am a builder who likes to fly rather than a flyer to likes to build. Also, I like restoring significant craft. For example, my boat is 16 years old but it is a 262 COBALT in perfect condition. The 262 was the best boat COBALT ever built. So, I would like spending my time bring back a deserving aircraft. This question is... do I try to stay within the bounds of Light Sport? It seems like many people have had their flying fun cut short by the medical requirements. I am 63, overweight, with meds for very slight borderline blood pressure. My back and knees are starting to complain about the extra weight so I plan to drop 50. (But I will still be Texas sized) Otherwise, for some reason, my yearly physical always come back excellent. (really pisses my doctor off). Maybe the reason I like the idea of Light Sport is because I loathe the government getting involved in my business. On the other hand, I'm cheap. I hate depreciation. Is a non-LSA vintage plane a better investment than the few craft that meet the LSA requirements? Will a non-LSA fill my weight issues and performance desires better? (STOL, mild aerobatics, weight)

    Is there a Aeronaca/ Champion/ Bellanca that checks all the boxes and can fly LSA 1320lb rules? (Keep in mind that cheap thing) Is an Aeronaca 7EC (90hp) an LSA? can you modify a vintage plane to make it LSA?

    Again, thanks and merry Christmas. Brock
    Last edited by bbutler455; 12-19-2017 at 12:54 PM. Reason: changes

  6. #16
    DaleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbutler455 View Post
    Thanks to everyone that took the time to respond to an uneducated (i'm learning) newbie. I LOVE the idea of a tandem Aeronaca/Champion/Bellanca with a more powerful 90+ hp motor. If pressed, today, I am a builder who likes to fly rather than a flyer to likes to build. Also, I like restoring significant craft. For example, my boat is 16 years old but it is a 262 COBALT in perfect condition. The 262 was the best boat COBALT ever built. So, I would like spending my time bring back a deserving aircraft. This question is... do I try to stay within the bounds of Light Sport? It seems like many people have had their flying fun cut short by the medical requirements. I am 63, overweight, with meds for very slight borderline blood pressure. My back and knees are starting to complain about the extra weight so I plan to drop 50. (But I will still be Texas sized) Otherwise, for some reason, my yearly physical always come back excellent. (really pisses my doctor off). Maybe the reason I like the idea of Light Sport is because I loathe the government getting involved in my business. On the other hand, I'm cheap. I hate depreciation. Is a non-LSA vintage plane a better investment than the few craft that meet the LSA requirements? Will a non-LSA fill my weight issues and performance desires better? (STOL, mild aerobatics, weight)

    Is there a Aeronaca/ Champion/ Bellanca that checks all the boxes and can fly LSA 1320lb rules? (Keep in mind that cheap thing) Is an Aeronaca 7EC (90hp) an LSA? can you modify a vintage plane to make it LSA?

    Again, thanks and merry Christmas. Brock
    If it has not continuously qualified as LSA since the day it was born, then it can never be an LSA. For example, there are some changes that can be made to a 7AC Champ that can take the gross weight over 1320#. If it's ever had such a modification done, and the gross weight has ever been taken over 1320#, then it's no longer "light sport" legal - and can never be so again, even if returned to its original configuration.

    If you're 63 and overweight, I don't care what your annual exams tell you -- time is not your friend. Fortunately, you now have Basic Med that can probably stretch your non-LSA flying for a while. That will cover you until you have some disqualifying event or condition. You're probably smart to get your private pilot certificate if you can pass a 3rd class medical exam. You'll have a much wider selection of candidate airplanes. You can always sell it and buy something LSA later if you find you won't qualify for Basic Med any more.
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

  7. #17

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    Because of the weight limit, LSA is likely more reasonable if flown solo. (nothing wrong with that choice)
    But if you want to also take other large friends or camp gear, I suggest the larger weight capacity aircraft.
    The options for flight without a medical are: Ultralight, Motor Glider, Balloon and Light Sport.
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 12-19-2017 at 04:45 PM.

  8. #18
    cub builder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbutler455 View Post
    Thanks to everyone that took the time to respond to an uneducated (i'm learning) newbie. I LOVE the idea of a tandem Aeronaca/Champion/Bellanca with a more powerful 90+ hp motor. If pressed, today, I am a builder who likes to fly rather than a flyer to likes to build. Also, I like restoring significant craft. For example, my boat is 16 years old but it is a 262 COBALT in perfect condition. The 262 was the best boat COBALT ever built. So, I would like spending my time bring back a deserving aircraft. This question is... do I try to stay within the bounds of Light Sport? It seems like many people have had their flying fun cut short by the medical requirements. I am 63, overweight, with meds for very slight borderline blood pressure. My back and knees are starting to complain about the extra weight so I plan to drop 50. (But I will still be Texas sized) Otherwise, for some reason, my yearly physical always come back excellent. (really pisses my doctor off). Maybe the reason I like the idea of Light Sport is because I loathe the government getting involved in my business. On the other hand, I'm cheap. I hate depreciation. Is a non-LSA vintage plane a better investment than the few craft that meet the LSA requirements? Will a non-LSA fill my weight issues and performance desires better? (STOL, mild aerobatics, weight)

    Is there a Aeronaca/ Champion/ Bellanca that checks all the boxes and can fly LSA 1320lb rules? (Keep in mind that cheap thing) Is an Aeronaca 7EC (90hp) an LSA? can you modify a vintage plane to make it LSA?

    Again, thanks and merry Christmas. Brock
    In your position, you would do better to get your private license, then forget about the 3rd class physical and go basic med. You can always drop back to light sport later if there is a need.

  9. #19

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    This LSA probably has the most useful load of any LSA (725 pounds), I think.
    http://www.msquaredaircraft.com/b2-ds-582-nf.html


    Choice of aircraft depends on what you want to do with it.

  10. #20
    Spencer_Gould's Avatar
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    Hate to be a "conformist" but the RV-14 looks like a real good choice for bigger dudes like you and me.

    Can do basic Acro & is offered in a Tail Dragger version if you want.

    the big perk of the RV's is the completion / get-er-done proven rates.

    Spencer Gould
    TC Composites & Firewall Forward.
    www.gouldaero.com

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