Newbie forming my buying vision... am I crazy?

[bbutler455]

My brother, sister, and brother-in-law all fly very nice, very expensive, airplanes. When I told them I wanted to build or finish an experimental light sport they told me to budget $45+k for the aircraft and $10k-$30k for avionics. While my family flys long distances in a straight line (boring), I personally want the excitement of low, slow flying locally and landing in a field close to my lake house. $60,000 to play around with toy that flys is a non-starter for me. If I take a Lean approach to flying can I build and enjoy an inexpensive EA while getting tons of value - fun, reward of construction, cool plane, etc.? Here are the goals and constraints I am working with...
- Have taken lessons in the past. Sport Pilot license seems easy, but open to getting a full ticket.
- I am BIG - 6', 300lbs, 4X jacket, big shoulders, 37" arms, 34' pants inseam
- Would like to take a passenger occasional but not an absolute requirement
- open to side by side or front and back seating
- open cockpits sound like fun, open to feedback
- folding or removable wings will enable me to work in my home shop and trailer to field.
- would like advantage of STOL bush capability (I live in rural area south of Branson MO)
- I also like the feeling of motion, of performance. Screaming around corners in a loud vintage motorcycle or sports car is tremendous fun. (but carefully)
- I have experience restoring many different vintage sports cars and motorcycles. Willing to take EAA classes to acquire any new skills I need.
- retired so I have time
- retired so I have money... but have been downsizing in all aspects. Can't spend stupid money like my family who are all still working. Or perhaps I am just Scotch-Irish. For example, we bought a $35k luxury sport boat. However, it was a perfecting maintained 16 year old 27 ft COBALT boat that now costs over $90k. IT IS FULLY DEPRECIATED AND COLLECTABLE. Will always be worth what I paid for it.
- My family thinks I am crazy to look for a way to add value to a LSA and at least break even if I ever have to sell. Their comment is that you spend ridiculous money on flying "because you love it". I love a lot of things that cost money. I don't want to become airplane poor.

So what's my budget? Depends. I am pulling money out of my investments to make another investment. What's my positive or negative ROI? I know I will never recoup my time, but I would like to feel like I have a reasonable asset. SO... $10K for an ultralight? $20k for an unfinished single-seater ELSA? $30k for an unfinished 2-seater Bush plane? $70k for a factory build LSA is not going to happen.

Is there a viable Lean strategy to owning and flying a fun LSA... or am I crazy? Wide open to suggestion?

I apologize for the length of this post. Thank you for listening.

Brock

[Fokker Builder]

A Davis DA as a single with a Cont 200 engine could handle 300#

[cluttonfred]

My first thought is to suggest a classic taildragger in flying condition but in need of some TLC. The ragwing Pipers are overpriced but you ought to be able to get in a flying Aeronca/Championi/Bellanca for less than your $30k budget for a unfinished, two-seat project. Tandem seating should be more comfortable for a big guy like you, but you'll need to try it out, of course. You'll see far less depreciation in something like that than in a homebuilt project, though there are certainly homebuilts that could work like the Wag-Aero Cub clones or maybe something like a Pober Junior Ace (side-by-side but the bench seat means you could set it up to sit in the middle when solo and use the outer pedals on each side.)

[Sam Buchanan]

My advice is for you to get your license first, then revisit your query. More than likely your mission profile will have been refined after going through the training process and accumulating some time. One option you may want to explore is purchasing something like an Aeronca Champ in which you can complete your training and would be very marketable if you decide to go a different direction later. However......buying a used aircraft can be a snake-pit for the uninformed. Use all the experienced resources at your disposal.

There is plenty of time to select your ultimate 'ride', in the meantime, enjoy tire-kicking!

[cub builder]

To date, I have owned 10 planes over the last 40 years, three of which I built. $30K is the most I have tied up in any plane, so your goals are certainly achievable. I am also of a similar build/size right down to your Scotch/Irish heritage. The Champ is a great little plane (I've owned two of them over the years), but you are going to be hard pressed to fly two in any Light Sport qualified plane with a 300# pilot. You might want to consider getting your Private license, which opens up a world of older planes that are just a tad heavier than light sport, but can carry significantly more weight and cost a lot less to buy. It also allows you to build/buy some heavier Experimental aircraft that will allow you to haul even larger passengers.

If you are wanting to build, I would suggest looking at some partially completed projects. You can usually buy them for a lot less than the cost of materials in the project and finish them out from there. If your workmanship is good, you'll have a plane that matches the value of your investment when it's completed.

[bbutler455]

To date, I have owned 10 planes over the last 40 years, three of which I built. $30K is the most I have tied up in any plane, so your goals are certainly achievable. I am also of a similar build/size right down to your Scotch/Irish heritage. The Champ is a great little plane (I've owned two of them over the years), but you are going to be hard pressed to fly two in any Light Sport qualified plane with a 300# pilot. You might want to consider getting your Private license, which opens up a world of older planes that are just a tad heavier than light sport, but can carry significantly more weight and cost a lot less to buy. It also allows you to build/buy some heavier Experimental aircraft that will allow you to haul even larger passengers.

If you are wanting to build, I would suggest looking at some partially completed projects. You can usually buy them for a lot less than the cost of materials in the project and finish them out from there. If your workmanship is good, you'll have a plane that matches the value of your investment when it's completed.

I have friends who buy completely restored vintage cars and then just take them to shows. That is not me. By the time i'm done I know everything there is to know about that vehicle and have laid hands on every nut and bolt with the exception of engine and trans rebuilds. People who know me say I am anal about my projects. The good news is that my cars and motorcycles are gorgeous and flawlessly reliable. I only restore cars and motorcycles that are significant and deserve to be returned to as-new condition.

Your advice makes a lot of sense relative to older vintage aircraft, but will I be able to be as hands on as I want? For me owning and restoring the plane will be as much fun as flying it. Getting a private license isn't an obstacle. Doing my own work and learning all about the airplane is important. That is what led me to experimental planes.

Can I work on vintage planes?

[dougbush]

- I also like the feeling of motion, of performance. Screaming around corners in a loud vintage motorcycle or sports car is tremendous fun. (but carefully)

I hope you find the aircraft that’s right for you, but I hope you abandon the goal of “the feeling of motion, of performance, screaming around corners.” You have to be close to the terrain to experience that feeling. I’ve read too many accident reports of pilots hitting obstacles that way. I’m sure they were all trying to be careful, but were surprised by an invisible gust or invisible wire or whatever. Flying through the middle of the air is exciting enough for me. If not for you, I hope you keep your motorcycle.