Wanna Fly High? Fuggetaboutit!

[Floatsflyer]

To get back to the original post, this brings up an interesting question of interpretation. What is the meaning of "ANY"? What type of test will be performed to determine the level of THC (or THC metabolites)?

Depending upon the type of test used - urine, blood, saliva, hair - "detectable" amounts of THC can be found over varying time periods, and mean different things. Recent usage, or historical usage.

I certainly applaud Canada for taking a step in the right direction - it would be good to have some clarity on how they intend to enforce the "zero tolerance" policy, based on the above.

Marc, these basic policy guidelines were just made public in the past week. It's a work in progress with more developing details to follow over the next 7 months. Stay tuned.

[robert l]

At one time I took Ambien because of a sleep disorder. I was going for a renewal of my 3rd class and after my initial Dr. visit to get things set up, I get a call from the nurse. She said the Dr. would feel better if I only took Ambien a few times a month and I told her, that would be fine if I only needed to sleep a few times a month, does he think I would take sleep meds and go fly??? I canceled the medical appointment knowing what was about to happen. I have since retired so I don't have to get up, (sleep or no sleep) at 4:30 am and put in a 14 hr. day, 7 days a week for 3 or 4 months. Now, I just get up when I feel like it! Ambien never made me feel groggy the next day but Benadryl sure did !
Bob

[Bob H]

When I worked in aerospace on both white and black programs, you were immediately fired if you used any drugs, period. HR would quietly screen all potential hires coming in for an interview and if a person
admitted he used pot at any time in his life, the job interview was over before it started. Security kept a very tight survalence on all employees. The higher the clearance, the tighter the security requirements.
Primary reason for the drug control was to keep anyone from security compromise by Soviets or other foreign agencies. And to maintain high integrity of work abilities, i.e., would you want you family flying on a plane
with parts designed or built by a pot head?

[rwanttaja]

...And to maintain high integrity of work abilities, i.e., would you want you family flying on a plane with parts designed or built by a pot head?

I'm kind of a traditionalist; planes should be designed or built by raging alcoholics.

Ron "Three martini lunches weren't just a MBA thing" Wanttaja

[Marc Zeitlin]

Primary reason for the drug control was to keep anyone from security compromise by Soviets or other foreign agencies.

When I got my clearance, they told us that if we told the truth to them, we couldn't be blackmailed and that's what they were worried about. They didn't give a crap if someone had used drugs at some point in a prior life - just that they knew about it.

And to maintain high integrity of work abilities, i.e., would you want you family flying on a plane with parts designed or built by a pot head?

Very close to the worst argument I've ever heard for denying someone a job (or firing them). Do you want your family flying on an aircraft designed by a drunk? How about someone that takes a lot of prescription painkillers? How about someone who is stressed out because of their wife suing for divorce? How about someone who's got insomnia and can't sleep? Or any one of a myriad of other reasons that may affect performance in a job, none of which are tested for?

Sheesh. There are a lot of reasons why someone might be incapable of performing their job, a small subset of which are listed above. If a company wants to have a PERFORMANCE test when everyone walks in the door in the morning to ensure that they're not incapacitated in any way for ANY reason, sign me up (and that's the argument I made to HP when HP started doing drug testing, an act with which I argued vehemently). But arbitrary rules against some particular substances that have nothing to do with performance when used responsibly (just like having a beer or four on Friday evening doesn't make you incapable of designing brackets on Monday) are merely the HR equivalent of TSA checks at airports - CYA moves to make it LOOK like you're doing something, while actually doing nothing useful.

I'll close with a quote from:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...effective.html

" ... That might make sense if testing yielded clear benefits to the companies that deploy it or to society at large. But here’s the most distressing fact about drug testing in the workplace: As was the case 30 years ago, testing has no solid base of evidence, no proof that it succeeds. We don’t know if screening workers for recent drug use makes them more productive, lowers their risk of getting into accidents, or otherwise helps maintain the social order. And what positive effects we do understand—there are indeed a few—seem almost accidental. They may not be worth the time and money and intrusion."

Fire away.

[rwanttaja]

Read an interesting idea a while ago that testing for alcohol, THC, etc. in folks' systems should be eliminated in favor of PERFORMANCE testing. If the person can't pass the appropriate mental acuity and physical capability testing, they shouldn't be allowed to drive/fly/operate heavy machinery, whether it's because of booze, pot, or a splitting migrane.

Marc mentioned that the Power What Be want to know about drug use to preclude the bad guys blackmailing someone. On the same basis, they do occasionally ask pointed questions about sexual preferences and habits.

Ron "Boy, was my face red" Wanttaja

[L16 Pilot]

Personally I must lead a pretty protected life as I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who use illegal drugs. On the other hand I'm on the plus side of 70 and not near as 'enlightened' as some younger folks who apparently seem to feel "Hey, if it feels good...do it!". It still gets down to the question on the medical form "Have you used any illegal drugs in the last two years" and it depends on how honest the applicant might be.

[robert l]

For over 20 years of an almost 50 year career in construction I was the safety person. Normally we gave the drug test in house but some jobs required us to have a 3^rdparty give the test. Hey, less work for me ! On a particular case my company wanted to give a hair test when the urine test came back inconclusive. The employee disappeared for a few days and when he came back to work, his hair had been bleached and cut real short. The testing technician said it didn’t matter,they could get hair from “ANY” part of the body ! OUCH !!! Anyway, she said the only problem with the hair test is that it won’t show anything that’s been used in the last two weeks because it hasn’t had time to get into the hair follicle.But beyond two weeks they can go pretty far back. This is mainly to tell if a person is a chronic user. Well personally, I’m not doing any work “In the past”,any work I do for an employer will be from the test date forward.
Bob

[1600vw]

[rwanttaja]

Personally I must lead a pretty protected life as I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who use illegal drugs.

Depends on whether people you know are casually willing to confess committing felonies. If I used, I certainly wouldn't tell any of MY non-using friends about it.

I've received a couple of shocks over the years, when acquaintances (and even friends) got busted for things I had no idea they were doing or were capable of doing. One emasculated another man in a bar fight, an espionage case, child porn, a rather virulent racist, and, of course, various people unfaithful to their spouses. One person I thought I knew well is currently serving a 70+ year sentence for a rather horrid series of crimes. Just a couple of months ago, I found out the wife of an acquaintance was addicted to opiods. Her husband drives to Mexico regularly to keep her supplied.

In the aftermath of discovery, it seemed obvious....various hints and odd occurrences suddenly made sense. But before the denouement, hadn't really crossed my mind.

Those that advertise their illegal activities generally get caught. But most of this stuff is pretty easy to hide.

Ron "Not what the guy did in the bar fight, but...." Wanttaja