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Thread: Wanna Fly High? Fuggetaboutit!

  1. #41
    robert l's Avatar
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    A $15.00 drug test kit from any pharmacy will give you the results in 5 min. I know, I've given hundreds ! These cops have watched too much TV !!!
    Bob

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob H View Post
    When I worked in aerospace on both white and black programs, you were immediately fired if you used any drugs, period. HR would quietly screen all potential hires coming in for an interview and if a person
    admitted he used pot at any time in his life, the job interview was over before it started. Security kept a very tight survalence on all employees. The higher the clearance, the tighter the security requirements.
    Primary reason for the drug control was to keep anyone from security compromise by Soviets or other foreign agencies. And to maintain high integrity of work abilities, i.e., would you want you family flying on a plane
    with parts designed or built by a pot head?
    Bob, did you ever think that you were part of a dystopian environment at work? Was there a Ministry of Truth down the hall from HR or did it replace HR?

    Since it's your Thanksgiving today, it would seem very appropriate to ask if, in addition to these "interviews", you and the other potential employees were also "injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected?"
    (Reference hint: you can get anything you want......)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Bob, did you ever think that you were part of a dystopian environment at work? Was there a Ministry of Truth down the hall from HR or did it replace HR?
    I worked in that environment for the last ~25 years of my aerospace career. There really wasn't that big of a deal about it, other than the physical security itself, and that varied from site to site, from program to program. Some places required all briefcases be inspected on the way out, some didn't. Didn't have windows in most places, a very few did. Usually had to go in through 3-5 security doors, often using different admission protocols (mechanical cypher lock, electronic cypher lock, manned security, badge readers, even a retina scanner).

    The expected glut of "Loose lips sink ships" sorts of posters, a bunch of rules on what couldn't be brought inside. Friend of mine was fired for accidentally bringing his cell phone inside. He reported the lapse himself...as we were required to. Multiple layers of computer security, as well... towards the end of my time, if I wanted to catch up on all my email, I had to log in to five different computers.

    Had an annual refresher to remind us of the rules.

    Almost never saw an HR person. This was good in a lot of ways...but of course, being stuck in the "black" was hell on promotion. Nobody outside the box knew what you did, so how can you convince them that you're worthy of more pay? Security guys were ubiquitous, but I generally got along with them fairly well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Since it's your Thanksgiving today, it would seem very appropriate to ask if, in addition to these "interviews", you and the other potential employees were also "injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected?"
    "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!"

    Ron "I am not a number, I am a free man! (at least since I retired in March)" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 11-23-2017 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    I worked in that environment for the last ~25 years of my aerospace career....
    I should mention the upside. Absolutely FASCINATING work. Being a mad monk/skunk works sort of program also means you can bypass a lot of the bureaucratic stuff. What they don't know won't hurt them.....

    My engineering DNA is on about 40 pieces of space hardware. Several of them have my physical signature on them. Here's a shot from one of the unclassified programs...my signature is highlighted by the arrow. Signed for both me and my wife.


    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 11-23-2017 at 08:20 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    I worked in that environment for the last ~25 years of my aerospace career. There really wasn't that big of a deal about it, other than the physical security itself, and that varied from site to site, from program to program.
    Were you exposed to the same draconian drug policies, interrogations and penalties as Bob H?.

  6. #46
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Were you exposed to the same draconian drug policies, interrogations and penalties as Bob H?.
    I'm not certain as to what Bob meant for some of those, but:

    1. I was not required to undergo a drug test during the course of my employment. However, when I returned from working at another company for several years, I *was* required to pass a drug screening as a condition of employment. No periodic ones at any time. I believe it wasn't allowed by the union contract. Those in the military, of course, are subject to random screening.

    2. I was required to pass an enhanced security examination periodically. I would suspect Bob, Ron, and others probably understand what I'm referring to. It is unpleasant. In addition, the Government periodically performed a full background check, for which we had to agree to allow investigators access to certain financial and medical records. As part of that, I was once grilled about apparent spending beyond my means, and how I was able to support my lifestyle (e.g., new house, new cars, old airplane). Told them to talk to Jeff Bezos about my wife's stock options.....

    3. As part of the agreements, you had to notify security of major changes in your life. Divorces, new co-habitants, financial problems, mental health issues, etc.

    4. Also had to notify them about any contacts with the news media. This was entertaining for me in two ways:

    - During the Engineer's strike at Boeing, I was interviewed by a French magazine. A French COMMUNIST magazine.
    - *I* am considered news media (books published by McGraw Hill, lotsa articles in the aviation press). I gleefully told my co-workers that, when asked about news media contacts, they had to report that they had been in contact with me. :-)

    5. Non-use of illicit substances was a condition of employment. During my long time period in the business, it did seem to change from "If you've ever used, you're out" to "don't use it any more." Bob's comment about the Government being concerned about blackmail rather than one's personal failings pretty much rings true, these days.

    Draconian? I guess. But once these hoops are taken, you are allowed access to information for which, "....the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security." One might understand official caution.

    I mentioned one of the offsetting positive aspects, the fascinating work. Another is job...pardon the pun...security. It costs about a half-million dollars to clear someone at these levels...and the process takes about ten months. Companies do NOT want to let you go, and pay accordingly.

    Ron Wanttaja

  7. #47
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Pssst... Frank, your PM storage quota is exceeded, and I can't respond to your latest.

    Ron "Don't mind me" Wanttaja

  8. #48

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    Fixed. Fun trivia fact: items in your "sent" box count towards your total number of messages one can store on the site. So 25 messages and 25 replies fills it up.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  9. #49
    robert l's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Bob, did you ever think that you were part of a dystopian environment at work? Was there a Ministry of Truth down the hall from HR or did it replace HR?

    Since it's your Thanksgiving today, it would seem very appropriate to ask if, in addition to these "interviews", you and the other potential employees were also "injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected?"
    (Reference hint: you can get anything you want......)

    No Float, a lot of people really want to work Nuclear, I wasn't crazy about it because of all the BS just to get the job and all the BS to do the job. I never looked for a Nuke job, I was always called by one company or another because I had a good reputation and most of the supervision liked me and most of the guys I worked with said, you're the best safety man I've ever worked with. I guess that was because I didn't get my knowledge from a collage but from actual work experience. I worked as a journeyman in 8 different crafts through the years so it was hard for anyone to get anything over on me, plus, I cut the guys some slack because I had been in their shoes, (boots) myself. Never got injected or infected but I got inspected, neglected and inspected ! I have worked as many as 3 Nuke jobs in a year and had to fill out the same paper work, (generally about 35 pages) plus a complete background check each time.
    Bob

  10. #50

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    Considering what some of the respondents here have gone through to get and maintain their positions, is asking the potential head of state to go through a similar process too much?

    Cheers, Hans

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