I just read that he held a multi-engine and instrument rating. And owns a Caravan.
And a witness reported seeing something like a steep climb and turn and dive into the water.
It seems the suitability of the craft for known or unknown low level hazards may need review.
This video is chilling and jaw dropping(because of what we now know) but it doesn't show what caused the crash, only the end result. The sequence of the plane flying ends abruptly just before the plane meets the water. The audio responses of the boat dudes to the plane in flight is based on the fact that they don't know that the plane is a seaplane, a flying boat.Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk
Why do you use the word "recklessly" to describe what you see? Have you ever flown a floatplane or a seaplane? What is it exactly that permits you to say that the flying was reckless? As far as I'm concerned I see nothing that could remotely be described as reckless flying. Any other viewpoints here?
I've played the first 18 seconds over and over again. I see a CONTROLLED descending right hand turn towards the water and a pull up to straight and level flight just above the water. He looks like he's setting up a water landing. What occurred in the next milliseconds resulted in a crash.
There's already so much misinformation and outright lies about the plane, the company and the sport plane category being reported and disseminated by the traditional media as we expect. Tonight I heard a host of one of those entertainment/celebrity shows say, in a voice over on this very video, "The plane was making some unusual and extreme movements..." Pisses me off. 114 years after the Wright Brothers and still this sensationalism. RIP Doc. I was hoping to see you back with the Jays as a pitching coach. Big loss.
In the TMZ video, I saw the aircraft on an approximate 60 degree bank about 100 feet above the water. Shortly thereafter the aircraft was reported crashing into the water by the cell phone owner. I also recall ICON petitioning the FAA for a weight increase beyond the light sport 1320 lb. limit. I believe they got the gross weight increased to 1500 lb. but I’m not sure. Could it be that with such a high wing loading and bank angle it entered into a stall/spin? Could it also be that in an effort to increase the gross weight ICON exceeded the designs ability to recover from a deep stall? Admittedly I have no other information on modifications ICON may or may not have made to the original design before petitioning the FAA.
Well, that brings a quick death to your call for the FAA to suspend the Light Sport Pilot Certificate pending review!
No, I said they should "consider" a review of the Special Light Sport Certificate (SLSA), which is the airworthiness certificate. Nothing to do with pilot certificate. A review of the applicable airworthiness standards should be a part of every crash investigation.
Or, they could wait till some 30 fatalities occur before issuing special flight training rules as they did in the case of the Robinson R-22 helicopter.
Last edited by Bill Berson; 11-08-2017 at 08:26 PM.
Duly noted, I misunderstood. But I don't think the airworthiness certificate and standards require review because the Icon had 2 fatal events. One was pilot error by a highly experienced chief test pilot(hey, s**t happens) and this one is pending. Way too early to go to such extremes, IMO.
Anger at the media is not warranted, the media didnt cause the crash. We hate to see a loss like this, and the sadness and the feeling of not being able to help is frustrating. And he seems to have been a great guy, only good thing is that his wife or kids were not with him.
When I saw the promo for this plane, it was pretty aggressive with fast low passes near the water and steep banked turns down low, in demonstrating the AOA instrument. If witnesses saw the plane climbing and then dive down, it could be flying outside the norm, or just him practicing landing patterns, in any case, AOA or not, I wouldnt want to bank 60* at 50 ft. if that is what happened. He could have hit the water on a low pass, or bounced a landing or a touch and go, or even a stall, just dont know. With a pusher engine mounted up high, what happens if you add power to go around, does the nose pitch down? Could that have made the contact? It sounds like he had a good bit of pilot training, but we dont know how many Icon water landings. Would it be unusual to land in salt water rather than on a fresh water lake?
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 11-09-2017 at 01:12 PM.
That is a preposterous linkage of 2 disparate statements.
Almost true, Bill. But I don't perceive the anger to be because they CAUSED the crash, only because of irresponsible, inaccurate, or sensationalist reporting. As you well know, that's been a problem with (most) media reporting on anything aviation for a long, long time -- they don't understand and/or they don't care.Anger at the media is not warranted, the media didnt cause the crash.
Larry N.
Inuss, what are the facts in your opinion? That the pilot hit the water and it was fatal? If we find less than perfect reporting in the gen media or try to nit pick what I or anyone else posted will that change the facts? Make his family any less sad? Will Floats anger at a tv host bring him back?
The media including national tv, reported because he was a sports celebrity. When our friend and EAA member Vlado Lenoch was killed just before Oshkosh, perhaps by hitting a power line, his accident got attention, but not as much nationally. Is his loss any less painful because there was less media?
The greatest ocean liner of its day went to sea with life boats for onlly a 1/3 of its people. No inquiring media to dig up an embarrassing fact and maybe save 1500 lives. Over decades 400 people were killed in V tail Bonanza break ups, which a fairly simple AD could have cured, but any reporting of this fact was met with the same attacks on the media till finally the turning point was reached. Early Cirrus had a lot of accidents, and finally with media attention and better training it has lessened.
Iti is common these days and so hollow to blame the media if one doesn't like the news or especially its reporting of something they'd like covered up, I e the claim of "fake news". One feature of any great country is free press and one feature of a poor one, be it Germany or Cuba is an attempt to limit and control the press.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 11-10-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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