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Thread: Obtaining Title for Data Plates

  1. #11

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    You can certainly reserve the N number with the FAA registry.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Go to para 4....

    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...ar/AC43-17.pdf


    I know what was done in the past and some of the stories are further embellished with each passing yr. but today what you suggest is simply not going to fly with the feds. You can’t manufacture a plane and install a data plate from another plane - legally anyway. Now, if you have a B17 with a data plate, you can repair that plane and it’s good to go.
    I don't have any parts of an airframe. All parts would be brand new, and specific to the data plate. That FAA advisory seems to be implying that I have an airframe, or part of one, and want to slap a data plate onto it, whereas my actual goal is near the opposite.

    In this case, serial 42-102542 which is a late B-17G-50-BO. The Boeing drawings would make an identical copy, specific to the serial number 42-102542. The only difference would be the atoms themself, in this case I would want to upgrade 2024 aluminum to a higher grade which is stronger and deteriorates slower, probably 6061.

    EDIT: I have done 3-D CAD work based off of 43-38083, and done work for "Desert Rat," but I have not and will not make any physical parts until I have a plate and it is registered, at which point I will rework my model to the correct serial number.
    Last edited by Eli Josephs; 10-22-2017 at 02:53 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    Airplanes don't have titles, they have registrations, slightly different. I think you need a complete chain of bill of sales to get a current registration in your name.
    A simple data plate has no value, as far as I know. I had some Aeronca data plates and threw them away.
    Thanks Bill. Is there any chance you know where I could find a regulation talking about this?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Josephs View Post
    Thanks Bill. Is there any chance you know where I could find a regulation talking about this?
    I don't know the regulation. But this is what you need: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ster_aircraft/

    Without a bill of sale, no way to get it registered.
    Even if you could prove ownership, do you have any logbook records to get a duplicate Airworthiness Certificate?
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 10-22-2017 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    I don't know the regulation. But this is what you need: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ster_aircraft/

    Without a bill of sale, no way to get it registered.
    Even if you could prove ownership, do you have any logbook records to get a duplicate Airworthiness Certificate?
    No logbook records that I know of, but I'd expect there to be records from the military about its service (flight hours, maintenance, etc). Not sure if that counts...

    As as far as bill of sale, I can get one from the current owner recording OUR transaction, but nothing before. It's not clear about how far back it needs to go, just from my scanning of the info and looking through the enclosed bill of sale link.

  6. #16

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    I know of nothing (other than needing two or three dump-trucks full of $100 bills) that would prevent someone from building an experimental B-17 aircraft clone and applying an unused "N" number? Mr Bally did just that with his 1/3 scale B-17 rendition.

    Beyond that this reminds me of the tale of a fellow who boasted about owning the same working axe in his family for 250 years, he only replaced the handle twenty-eight times and the head five. You have a souvenir B-17 data plate, nothing more. AFAIK data plates do not an airplane make. But SINCERE kudos on having those filled dump trucks.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Josephs View Post
    No logbook records that I know of, but I'd expect there to be records from the military about its service (flight hours, maintenance, etc). Not sure if that counts...

    As as far as bill of sale, I can get one from the current owner recording OUR transaction, but nothing before. It's not clear about how far back it needs to go, just from my scanning of the info and looking through the enclosed bill of sale link.
    A bill of sale from the current owner or owners might work for you. I recommend a title search, to make sure of current owner. (They call it title search but isn't really a title)

    The Bally 1/3 B-17 was experimental amateur built.
    You could build a full scale B-17 using EA-B rules. In that case a new data plate would be created with your name as manufacturer. And you can change it to 6061 if you want. But 6061 is not as strong as 2024.
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 10-22-2017 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY View Post
    I know of nothing (other than needing two or three dump-trucks full of $100 bills) that would prevent someone from building an experimental B-17 aircraft clone and applying an unused "N" number? Mr Bally did just that with his 1/3 scale B-17 rendition.

    Beyond that this reminds me of the tale of a fellow who boasted about owning the same working axe in his family for 250 years, he only replaced the handle twenty-eight times and the head five. You have a souvenir B-17 data plate, nothing more. AFAIK data plates do not an airplane make. But SINCERE kudos on having those filled dump trucks.
    I am aware, but it is not helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    A bill of sale from the current owner or owners might work for you. I recommend a title search, to make sure of current owner. (They call it title search but isn't really a title)

    The Bally 1/3 B-17 was experimental amateur built.
    You could build a full scale B-17 using EA-B rules. In that case a new data plate would be created with your name as manufacturer. And you can change it to 6061 if you want. But 6061 is not as strong as 2024.
    I'll do a title search when I have a little more time. I will ask the seller if he can obtain a bill of sale for when he obtained the plate. I'm considering getting info directly from the FAA for details, but I'm not sure who I should contact. Do you have any suggestions?

    I know that I could go amateur built, but that would have certain restrictions to its use, thus fewer people would have an interest in helping the project along.

    I am probably thinking of the wrong aluminum alloy...

  9. #19

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    I always called one of the Oklahoma City based private aircraft title companies that advertised in Trade-a-Plane

  10. #20
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    I would talk to your local FSDO before cutting metal...for that matter, before buying the metal. Our opinion doesn't matter, your opinion doesn't matter, it's all up to the FAA guys. As has been mentioned, what you apparently plan to do is contrary the FAA policy, as reflected in the Advisory Circular. Now, ACs are NOT regulations... but they indicate what should be approvable.

    Ron Wanttaja

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