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Thread: Obtaining Title for Data Plates

  1. #31

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    I will presume that the difference is that the restorers still have all the swamp plane that they recovered and ARE using as much of the original as they can salvage in that restoration?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyoranch View Post
    But how does it work for say a warbird recovered from some swamp somewhere when 95% of the plane is made in a shop?
    Thanks to everyone for their patience
    Rick
    The recovered plane can be restored/repaired as needed and returned to service. There are nuances in the regulatory process that makes one method permissible and the other illegal.

  3. #33
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    There is a long history of "data plate restorations" where one jacks up the data plate and slides a new plane underneath it. What is absolutely necessary, however, is not just the data plate but a documented chain of ownership (bill(s) of sale, etc.) from the last registered owner of the aircraft, whether a civilian or the government. So according to the paperwork you bought the actual airplane though there may be some parts (perhaps everything but the data plate) missing.

    In the case of an abandoned wreck that was government owned when it crashed, I don't know how it works. Obviously it can be done, as in the case of the guys who have recovered bombers from glaciers.

    In the case of warbirds, while some are eligible for standard category airworthiness certificates, others aren't, and a new reproduction registered as experimental-amateur built or exhibition may well be less restrictive. But regardless, the price tag for such a project includes many zeros.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    In the case of warbirds, while some are eligible for standard category airworthiness certificates, others aren't, and a new reproduction registered as experimental-amateur built or exhibition may well be less restrictive. But regardless, the price tag for such a project includes many zeros.
    Out of curiosity, are there any true combat airplanes from WWII that had Standard Airworthiness? I don't mean variants of the C-45 that dropped training bombs on Kansas, or SNJs equipped for gunnery training.

    Don't believe any of the traditional fighters or bombers did, but some of the patrol aircraft like the Catalina or Hudson might.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #35

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    I think a Standard Airworthiness certificate is more important than data plate. Looks like most are perhaps Limited Airworthiness cerficate. http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_bombers/b17_26.html

    Or get a DC-4 or DC-6 and fit a new custom B-17 shaped fuselage?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Out of curiosity, are there any true combat airplanes from WWII that had Standard Airworthiness? I don't mean variants of the C-45 that dropped training bombs on Kansas, or SNJs equipped for gunnery training.

    Don't believe any of the traditional fighters or bombers did, but some of the patrol aircraft like the Catalina or Hudson might.
    There's at least one P-51 on the FAA registry with a standard AWC. I don't think any B-17s do, but some manufacturers tried to sell bombers as cargo planes after the war, possible some received standard certificates.

  7. #37

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    Dana,
    so the issue is NOT that the OP has a data plate with no airplane attached, it is the lack of paperwork attached to the data plate ? So if he had the paper trail on the plate, he could ( and I love this saying...... ) jack the data plate up and slide another airplane underneath ( and yes I understand it is not that simple...) ? Thanks for your patience.
    Rick

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyoranch View Post
    Dana,
    so the issue is NOT that the OP has a data plate with no airplane attached, it is the lack of paperwork attached to the data plate ? So if he had the paper trail on the plate, he could ( and I love this saying...... ) jack the data plate up and slide another airplane underneath ( and yes I understand it is not that simple...) ? Thanks for your patience.
    Rick
    Pretty much, yes. Replacing everything but the data plate is an extreme stretch of the rules, but it does happen. I don't know what the logbook entries look like in such a situation.

    More often it's not everything, at least at the same time, like grandpa's axe. I once owned a 1941 Taylorcraft, I figured about the only original major parts were the engine, instrument panel (but not all the instruments) and the left landing gear. The fuselage had been replaced at one point with a new factory fuselage, at another point the wings with a set of "good used wings", etc.

  9. #39

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    AC 45-2D has more on data plates:

    i. Acquiring an Identification Plate from Somewhere Other Than the Manufacturer.
    (1) You are required to have the FAA’s approval to remove, change information on, or
    install an identification plate for other than maintenance.
    (2) You are required not to use an identification plate from a scrapped or destroyed
    aircraft or aircraft engine.
    (3) You are required to buy identification plates from an approved source after going
    through the process described in paragraph 6g.
    (4) If you install an identification plate without the FAA’s approval, you are in violation
    of 45.13(b), (c), and/or (e)


    Again, unless I'm missing something, it looks to me like a person that obtains a data plate from other than an approved source (ebay, Barnstormers, the guy wearing a trench coat who opens coat up and inside is lined with data plates- "data plates, data plates, get your data plates here - I've got B-1 through B-29. B-707 through B747, Lunar Shuttle - you name it I can get it"), or from a scrapped or destroyed airplane and bolts it on a plane without FAA approval has violated the regs. Obtaining a random data plate, hanging it in the shop by a string and building a plane around it is not legal. Same is true of driving a plane different from which data plate was removed underneath and attaching said data plate - obviously one is simply swapping data plate from one plane to another. Might be nice to talk about but probably hard to find someone with a certificate on the line that will sign off on illegal activity. Also, why would someone spend a lot of $$$$ (possibly millions on a warbird) and risk having the FAA ground the plane? Doesn't make sense. Sure bet a mechanic who gets busted will spill the beans on the aircraft in question.

    Of course it is possible, especially in helicopter world (where nearly every part is life limited), that over time an aircraft could evolve to where not an original part remains through routine maintenance and parts replacement. The history of how that occurred would be in the records. It is possible to have a plane destroyed for whatever reason where the owner gets FAA approval to remove data plate (obviously this is outside the scope of maintenance), rebuild plane (even 100% if required) and re-install same data plate on his "new" plane. As long as the FAA gives the blessing, all is good.



    Edit: The current version of this AC is 45-2E available for viewing here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...r/AC_45-2E.pdf
    Last edited by martymayes; 10-30-2017 at 04:59 AM. Reason: updated reference

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