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Thread: Historical Accuracy vs. Modern Sensibilities

  1. #11
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    There are no good Nazis....
    C'mon, Floats. The British, Canadian, and US armies were engaged in large-scale production of good Nazis, up through May 1945. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Today in Germany and other countries, it is a criminal offence to publicly show the Swastica and Cross.
    I'm aware of the banning of the swastika, but what cross is banned?

    Ron Wanttaja

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    An airplane emblazoned with the Nazi swastika would be totally inappropriate, even if it's historically accurate. Too hurtful and too many bad feelings from that symbol. Using that emblem is a provocation.
    I certainly appreciate that point of view. However, I think Frank had a good point: The swastika says, "This is what Hitler had in his toolbox." From the point of view of anyone born after 1945, the Allied victory was inevitable. It really wasn't, and the capability and quality of the machinery in the Nazi tool lockers was a big part of that. Homer Simpson once summed up this attitude, calling the Nazis "The Washington Generals of the History Channel."

    It struck home for me a couple of years back. My father-in-law passed on, and left me a rifle that his uncle had brought home from the war. Like any weapon, it has stamped proof marks to show it had passed qualification test.

    In this case, the proof stamps are all the Nazi eagle-and-swastika. Little tiny swastikas, all over the weapon.

    The war got a bit more real to me, afterwards.

    So I feel they belong, in their proper historical context. However, it's true that the context is no always maintained.

    Personally, altered alternatives bug the heck out of me, like Ercoupes in D-Day paint. :-) Caiden's modified eagle just seems jarring. I would sooner just leave it off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    Interestingly, Imperial Japanese WWII planes such as the Zero had Japanese "sun" markings (a red disk in a white background), and that is still the official flag of Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Japan), so that emblem would probably not offend or cause hard feelings.
    Odd you should mention that. The Fly Baby has the same basic layout as the Mitsubishi A5M "Claude," and I've toyed with a pre-war Japanese paint job.

    However, where the Germans (for the most part) complied with the Geneva Conventions regarding handling prisoners of war, the Japanese did not. Tens of thousands of American servicemen were abused. I just can't imagine having the airplane at a fly-in when one of these survivors come by.

    I've contemplated replacing the hinomaru with Army Air Force star and dot insignia, and marking the plane as if it were a captured Claude undergoing evaluation. Pete Bowers actually was involved in engineering evaluation of captured Japanese aircraft, I could add his name as the test conductor.

    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 10-17-2017 at 08:31 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    However, the "Rising Sun" flag and logo, which has the red circle and red sun rays emanating from it, is generally outlawed and despised, particularly in Asian countries that the Imperial Japanese occupied in '30s and '40s.
    Mark, the current iteration of the Japanese navy ("Maritime self-defense force") uses an almost identical rising sun flag.....

    Ron Wanttaja

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    I'm aware of the banning of the swastika, but what cross is banned?

    Ron Wanttaja

    The Celtic Cross

  5. #15

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    Bonus points to Ron for the "good Nazi" line. We sure did make a lot of them.

    If you mean the Iron Cross, it's only banned in Germany if it has a swastika in the center. It's not widely used, however, as it is considered going against the spirit of the law, if not the letter.

    Even then, if used in a historical context it is allowed in Germany....though permission must be granted.

    Floats, we're of a like mind on the whole Nazi symbol thing - I think it's distasteful outside of a strict historical setting.

    However, here in the USA we have the most broad legal interpretation of free speech of any place in the world. One could put a Hello Kitty as Hitler on their plane, and apart from some copyright issues it would be perfectly legal.

    Frank "That's actually kind of funny in a perverse way" Giger
    Last edited by Frank Giger; 10-17-2017 at 09:48 PM.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  6. #16
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    The Celtic Cross
    Gotcha, thanks. Had to look it up, but see what you're saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    ...However, here in the USA we have the most broad legal interpretation of free speech of any place in the world. One could put a Hello Kitty as Hitler on their plane, and apart from some copyright issues it would be perfectly legal.
    Ga.... baaaaa....daaaa.....
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(sound of nearly-human brain stunned by the possibilities.....)

    And the fun thing is, Hitler/Nazi parodies were fair game for USAAF nose art.

    Hmmmmm......

    Ron "It....could....WORK!" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 10-17-2017 at 11:57 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Today in Germany and other countries, it is a criminal offence to publicly show the Swastica and Cross.
    I enjoy the annual airshow at NAS Pensacola. The Luftwaffe usually displays a Panavia Tornado. Its assigned to the Luftwaffe unit that lives at Navy Pensacola. It is marked with the cross on the wings and under the cockpit. Also it has a small national flag on the Vert Stab.

  8. #18
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    The German Luftwaffe's current roundel is the iron cross, in use by Germans for quite a while (without the swastika).
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. I am building a Fisher Celebrity, slowly.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dingley View Post
    I enjoy the annual airshow at NAS Pensacola. The Luftwaffe usually displays a Panavia Tornado. Its assigned to the Luftwaffe unit that lives at Navy Pensacola. It is marked with the cross on the wings and under the cockpit. Also it has a small national flag on the Vert Stab.
    In future, do not attribute things to me that I did NOT say. Read a thread thoroughly before you make a comment that you seemingly think refutes something I said. Look at post #14.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    The German Luftwaffe's current roundel is the iron cross, in use by Germans for quite a while (without the swastika).
    See my response in post #19.

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