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Thread: Sadly, Cirrus Accident Friday

  1. #51

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    Cary, I agree its sad and didint have to happen, But not that going way north would have been the only safe way. The route he took is fine. I have come from Loveland ( used to have my annuals at Ft. Collins Downtown for 20 years or so) over Corona Pass, just south of Granby to Kremling on to Eagle hundreds of times, and this was the first part of his route. Corona is about 12,000 and after than you can fly most of the way at 10,500, 12,500 would have cleared all. No need to be "snaking through the rocks", like if driving . You fly over them, day or night. Just like going east over Corona, be at 13,5 or above, dont be down low and "snaking" through Berthoud Pass, which is lower but narrow. Now bad weather is another matter, and its possible even likley that the weather was ok up until Eagle. A total prohibition of any night flying over mountains is pretty rigid so many pilots may disregard it. It can be a clear moonlit night, smooth and beautiful, but on a dark night with clouds its gets critical.I wish I had been in the FBO when he was gettiing ready to leave, I would have said something like lets look at the weather, dont know if he'd have listened or not, but Id be a little forward if it prevented a lot of sadness.
    Aviation gives but it can take away so much, more than almost any other fun thing to do. You get banged up playing football ,even a concussion, and ski racing and knee surgeries are routine but not fatal and not for a family.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 09-30-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #52

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    I don't think the hazards of night flight are taught well enough or at all. At least not for me. I almost killed myself at night and gave it up.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    I don't think the hazards of night flight are taught well enough or at all. At least not for me. I almost killed myself at night and gave it up.
    Yes, it's definitely lacking in breadth and depth. After the few hrs of night training required by regulation most find night flying euphoric. Hazards are not recognized or understood, much less the focus during training.

  4. #54
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    I don't think the hazards of night flight are taught well enough or at all. At least not for me. I almost killed myself at night and gave it up.
    Back in the dawn 'o time when I learned to fly, night time wasn't required. In the ~45 years I've had my ticket, I've flown at night only twice. The second time was in my Fly Baby with no landing light and a lightstick to illuminate the panel.....

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #55
    Cary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Cary, I agree its sad and didint have to happen, But not that going way north would have been the only safe way. The route he took is fine. I have come from Loveland ( used to have my annuals at Ft. Collins Downtown for 20 years or so) over Corona Pass, just south of Granby to Kremling on to Eagle hundreds of times, and this was the first part of his route. Corona is about 12,000 and after than you can fly most of the way at 10,500, 12,500 would have cleared all. No need to be "snaking through the rocks", like if driving . You fly over them, day or night. Just like going east over Corona, be at 13,5 or above, dont be down low and "snaking" through Berthoud Pass, which is lower but narrow. Now bad weather is another matter, and its possible even likley that the weather was ok up until Eagle. A total prohibition of any night flying over mountains is pretty rigid so many pilots may disregard it. It can be a clear moonlit night, smooth and beautiful, but on a dark night with clouds its gets critical.I wish I had been in the FBO when he was gettiing ready to leave, I would have said something like lets look at the weather, dont know if he'd have listened or not, but Id be a little forward if it prevented a lot of sadness.
    Aviation gives but it can take away so much, more than almost any other fun thing to do. You get banged up playing football ,even a concussion, and ski racing and knee surgeries are routine but not fatal and not for a family.
    I can't say I've been over Corona hundreds of times--maybe a dozen or so--and I agree that it's a safe way or I wouldn't fly it--but not on an overcast night. I don't think that was his route, based on the description in the preliminary report, but the route that was described there (which I think is more over Estes Park to Milner Pass and then southwest toward Kremmling) is also equally safe in the daylight. I wouldn't do it at night, at all, because although on a moonlit night it would be easy enough to see where I'm going, the chances of finding a halfway acceptable place to set down if there were engine troubles is close to zilch, but there are many acceptable places visible in the daylight. On the other hand, the circuitous way I suggested past Laramie and on northwest to Medicine Bow and Cherokee is safe enough, day or night, with highways visible to set down on if necessary (I know, landing on highways has its own hazards--nothing is 100% guaranteed). For me, flying the kinds of airplanes that I have flown and the one I fly now, no night flight over the mountains is indeed the wisest, even if it seems rigid. And I do love flying at night.

    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Yes, it's definitely lacking in breadth and depth. After the few hrs of night training required by regulation most find night flying euphoric. Hazards are not recognized or understood, much less the focus during training.
    I still have a euphoric experience when I fly at night. My very first lesson was at night, out of Elmendorf AFB almost 45 years ago in a C150, on a beautiful clear night. The starlit sky and the lights of Anchorage all combined to make it a memorable first lesson. Since then, I've logged several hundred hours at night and flown more than I've logged, and I still really enjoy it. But I have a greater respect for the risks than I did way back then, probably caused by reading too many NTSB report summaries, knowing personally about night accidents, and having my own surprise encounters with clouds that I didn't expect. You're absolutely right--the risks, and the ways to ameliorate many of those risks, are not well taught in the few hours of night training that are included in the typical private pilot curriculum.

    Cary
    "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth...,
    put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Back in the dawn 'o time when I learned to fly, night time wasn't required. In the ~45 years I've had my ticket, I've flown at night only twice. The second time was in my Fly Baby with no landing light and a lightstick to illuminate the panel.....

    Ron Wanttaja
    43 years for me. If they had Sport Pilot back in '74 I would have gone that route for my 2 seat Chief.

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