Sadly, Cirrus Accident Friday

[rwanttaja]

I would say even if you are flying a Cirrus, the next few minutes are going to be very challenging. With no parachute, you have to pick a spot to land if there is one, or the least bad place to crash. Now you've got to either land, not screw it up, and pray there's nothing you didn't plan for -- or crash as slowly as you can and hope for the best. If you have a chute, you have to figure your chances of landing safely, then decide if your chances will be significantly better if you pull the handle. Me... if I had that option... if a safe landing were not assured, I'd pull the handle and call it a day.

Agree completely...this is probably what I would do, in the same situation. Set up an engine-out approach, wait until nearing the bottom of the chute envelope, then pull if I'm not absolutely certain. I'd add 100 feet to the bottom of the envelope for each person aboard.... :-)

The point is, THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. The insurors for Cirrus owners are quite happy to pay up, since they can buy 10 new Cirri for what they'd probably have to pay for a single wrongful-death lawsuit.

Even "smooth" farm fields aren't a great alternative. They might look great from the air, but things are a little different when you figure you're going to put little bitty wheels into pretty deep furrows of very soft earth, at highway speeds. A friend of mine had an engine failure last winter. A Cassutt, over farm land. Sure, it glides... about as well as a piano, I think. While he survived and is flying again today, the outcome would have been much better and the hospital stay and recovery a lot shorter had he been able to come down under a canopy at less than 70 or 80 MPH.

The other factor here is pilot skill in pulling off the landing. I mined my homebuilt accident database, and found that about 12% of homebuilt engine failure accidents end in a stall/spin. It's 19% for the Lancair IV...in almost one in five cases of an engine failure ending in an accident, it's because the pilot stalled out trying to land with the dud engine. Of course, the accident database doesn't reflect successful forced landings, but those are probably less common for high performance aircraft.

Ron Wanttaja

[DaleB]

Of course another situation is ditching. Especially in a fixed gear airplane, if I have no choice to go into the drink, I'd bloody well rather do it vertically, slow and upright than horizontally and fast, with a very high probability of ending up upside-down.

[robert l]

Of course another situation is ditching. Especially in a fixed gear airplane, if I have no choice to go into the drink, I'd bloody well rather do it vertically, slow and upright than horizontally and fast, with a very high probability of ending up upside-down.

Can you elaborate on the vertically, slow and upright!
Bob

[CHICAGORANDY]

Does it mean trying to hit the water with the nose pointed straight up (vertical) ?

[DaleB]

Can you elaborate on the vertically, slow and upright!
Bob

Does it mean trying to hit the water with the nose pointed straight up (vertical) ?

Think about an airplane with a big parachute attached to it.

With the aircraft in an upright orientation with respect to the ground, meaning not upside down as would very likely happen after a water landing in a fixed gear airplane. Wheels down, canopy up. Upright. Probably easier to exit than if it were upside down, either on land or in the water.

A (reasonably) slow vertical descent, meaning at a forward speed substantially lower than stall speed and a vertical speed substantially less than would normally be seen if the airplane were stalled or in a spin. As would happen under a big parachute.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Aha! Thanks - When I first read your post I didn't assume ditching with a deployed parachute.

[rwanttaja]

Aha! Thanks - When I first read your post I didn't assume ditching with a deployed parachute.

Yep. If I remember correctly, the Cirrus doesn't actually sit level under the chute...it's slightly nose-down to provide a progressive impact with the ground to moderate the forces on the occupants. Of course, it takes a bit of time to get stable, which means that it could still be swinging a bit when it hits.

In addition, the Cirrus' seats are impact-absorbing in the vertical axis to reduce injuries from ground contact. And have airbags in the seatbelts

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

It's my understanding once you pull the chute you loose all control and are now a passenger going for a ride. You have no control or loose all control. It lands where it lands.

[Floatsflyer]

It's my understanding once you pull the chute you loose all control and are now a passenger going for a ride. You have no control or loose all control. It lands where it lands.

Yup, no toggles for directional control, it's not a C-3 or para commander. Just sit back and enjoy the ride in those unique high energy absorbing seats with the full knowledge that you and your occupants will live to see another day fully intact.

Oh, and hope it doesn't land on you.

[rwanttaja]

It's my understanding once you pull the chute you loose all control and are now a passenger going for a ride. You have no control or loose all control. It lands where it lands.

Yes. Which is why Cirrus builds in all the cockpit impact absorption features.

The loss of control issue, so far, is mostly moot. Wikipedia says 142 survivors and one fatality under a successfully-deployed parachute.

As of 15 August 2016, the CAPS has been activated 83 times, 69 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 142 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities, unsuccessful deployments, or anomalies (with the exception of one that is still under investigation) have occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters. Some additional deployments have been reported by accident, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires, and 14 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments have been repaired and put back into service.

Trying to find the details of the one fatality; almost all the cases involving fatalities were outside the chute envelope.

Ron Wanttaja