Should we Still Teach Old Tech???

[rwanttaja]

You kids with your fancy-dan E6Bs.

Almost exactly 50 years ago, I joined Civil Air Patrol as a 13-year-old cadet. Aviation crazy then, aviation crazy now. Things don't change much, I guess ('cept my weight is about three times higher).

Progression through the ranks was difficult. You worked your way up the enlisted ranks until you were ready to take the tests for cadet officer. There were six textbooks that covered particular aviation and military subjects. Getting a stripe required passing formal, written test on each book. Each weekly CAP meeting included a class on one of the books. The classes would go for several months, then the tests would be requested from CAP national. The test sheets would arrive, those ready would take the exam, and the test sheets would be sent back to national for grading. It took four to six months to complete the requirement for just one stripe. None of it was at your own speed; you were dependent upon the squadron holding the proper classes and ordering the tests when everyone was ready.

About eighteen months after I'd joined, I'd worked my way up to two stripes, and was rather frustrated at the slowness. Then I found out CAP had a loophole. If you passed the Private Pilot written test, you'd get full credit for completing the four books of the sequence that dealt directly with aviation. So I decided to take that route. I grabbed "The Private Pilot Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" and started studying.

The navigation part was the hardest. I was just 14; I couldn't afford one of those slick flight computers. The time/distance math was easy enough...but how could I do the wind triangles?

One of the adults took pity on me, and showed me how to solve them by hand, using a chart, protractor, and ruler. I'd draw a line on the map in the desired direction of flight, and mark off the scale airspeed along the vector. I'd then draw another vector at the airspeed point for the direction and speed of the wind. The length of the third leg of the triangle would give the ground speed, and the required heading offset would be the measured difference between the two lines.*


A few days after my 15th birthday, I went to the FAA office to take the Private written. I got a lot of weird looks...I was years younger than everyone else, and was working awkwardly with a protractor, yardstick, and a big sheet of paper.

Got the results a month later (addressed to "Ron ad" Wanttaja...which became my handle for a while): I'd gotten a 70%, the lowest passing grade.

Took the FAA letter into the next CAP meeting. They were surprised...but agreed that I had met the requirements. Cadet Airman Wanttaja became Cadet Master Sergeant Wanttaja.

My squadron nemesis quit that week. I'd jumped him by two stripes.

Here's a picture of me from roughly that period. I'm the one standing on the left.

There was a bit of fall-out. As I said, I took the test just a few days after my 15th birthday (which was on the 20th of the month). However, the test results were valid for only two years. I started lessons when was 16, and had only a 10-day window between my 17th birthday and the date my written would expire.

And, of course, I was unable to get the flight test in during that time. So my written expired, and I re-took it about a month later. This time, I had an E6B.....

Now, there's ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION that my manual wind triangles gave me a better understanding of them than those flipping their Flight Computers so adroitly. But I don't think it should necessarily be a skill folks need to retain....

Ron Wanttaja

* When writing this, I tried to re-create a manual wind triangle. Couldn't do it...had to research it online.

[CHICAGORANDY]

My High School adventures started at age 12 in 1961. We learned on the venerable slide rule....becuz pocket calculators hadn't been invented. Had they been we wouldn't have gone half blind properly aligning that hairline cursor - lol

I sometimes chuckle at the notion of things that are viewed as being 'old school'. They aren't. Old school was actually the state of the art technology in whatever year you want to insert. I actually still enjoy planning a road trip using a paper map.... but enroute I use my GPS and connect my smart phone to the car's Bluetooth for hands-free use if needed. I guess I 'could' try to connect to this forum online with a Commodore 64 (MY 1st PC) but I feel no shame using my current Dell desktop or Acer tablet. Maybe I'm not as much a Luddite as I sometimes feel - lol

[martymayes]

Now, there's ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION that my manual wind triangles gave me a better understanding of them than those flipping their Flight Computers

Most people who used an E6B had no idea of the arithmetic functions they were performing and it didn't really make a difference. So those punching buttons on a electronic device don't have any more or less knowledge. In both cases it's all about feeding in information to get an answer. Which one is better is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Once upon a time a student left his E6B on the glare shield and the compass rose on the back side for calculating WCA fell off. I told him all he had to do was glue it back to the plastic disc but he was worried if it was glued on the wrong way, the device would no longer be accurate. I ended up gluing it back together and reassured him that I calibrated, checked and tested it for accuracy........so,

some people are probably better off with the electronics. I've never heard of a plane crashing because they didn't have an E6B on board with someone proficient in it's use.

[CraigCantwell]

I'm moving up in technology in the airplanes I'm restoring.... My Stinson L-5B has a compass, the Fairchild AT-21 has an SCR-269 Radio Compass to go with the regular compass. Whoo whoo... Losing my Ludditeness one step at a time.

[martymayes]

I'm moving up in technology in the airplanes I'm restoring.... My Stinson L-5B has a compass,

In a few yrs you can upgrade to a vertical card compass!!

[Mayhemxpc]

Ron's comments about why it is good to teach non-electronic means of navigation are spot on. I used to get frustrated with the loss of basic map and compass skills in the military. (Since I retired I don't stress about it too much anymore.) Before may last deployment -- to West Africa -- they had us go through a map course using a hand held GPS. Anyone who has ever done geocaching knows the pitfalls of this. After getting NEAR the first point (GPS CEP 22m on a good day. WAAS accuracy is unrealistic in Africa) I looked at one of the officers who would deploy under me. "Capt Amadi (USMC), do you know your pace?" Yes sir! "Fine, you are pace, I am compass" (taking out the silva compass I have carried since 1986.) We finished the course long before anyone else with their fancy hand-held GPS.

2d story: My annual check ride for CAP as a Check Pilot, flying a G-1000 C-182 from the right seat. After the end, the check pilot asked why I didn't use reversion to bring the PFD in front of me. (1) Because this is simulating an instructional ride and I would want the pilot being instructed to have best view of both displays and (2) What makes you think I ever looked at the PFD? (pointing to the three round dial back up instruments.)

3; +1 on the understanding aspect of learning "old school" before applying new tech. UNDER-standing: to know what lies beneath appearances. Ron's wind triangle. Overall situational awareness. Having a good idea of what the answer should be before relying on the digital device for precision. Otherwise you wind up like the crew of Air France 447, relying on electronics to tell them how to fly the airplane.

Final note, my 13 year old son is in 8th grade algebra. They are still teaching them to do everything by hand, so there is some hope for the future. (He is also a CAP cadet. Sorry, Ron: that loophole no longer exists -- but they do allow self-paced study and on-line testing.)

[Ivanstein]

This will probably show my level (or lack thereof) of knowledge, but aren't "wind triangles" just graphical vector addition?

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[DaleB]

Ron's comments about why it is good to teach non-electronic means of navigation are spot on. I used to get frustrated with the loss of basic map and compass skills in the military. (Since I retired I don't stress about it too much anymore.) Before may last deployment -- to West Africa -- they had us go through a map course using a hand held GPS. Anyone who has ever done geocaching knows the pitfalls of this. After getting NEAR the first point (GPS CEP 22m on a good day. WAAS accuracy is unrealistic in Africa) I looked at one of the officers who would deploy under me. "Capt Amadi (USMC), do you know your pace?" Yes sir! "Fine, you are pace, I am compass" (taking out the silva compass I have carried since 1986.) We finished the course long before anyone else with their fancy hand-held GPS.

2d story: My annual check ride for CAP as a Check Pilot, flying a G-1000 C-182 from the right seat. After the end, the check pilot asked why I didn't use reversion to bring the PFD in front of me. (1) Because this is simulating an instructional ride and I would want the pilot being instructed to have best view of both displays and (2) What makes you think I ever looked at the PFD? (pointing to the three round dial back up instruments.)

3; +1 on the understanding aspect of learning "old school" before applying new tech. UNDER-standing: to know what lies beneath appearances. Ron's wind triangle. Overall situational awareness. Having a good idea of what the answer should be before relying on the digital device for precision. Otherwise you wind up like the crew of Air France 447, relying on electronics to tell them how to fly the airplane.

Final note, my 13 year old son is in 8th grade algebra. They are still teaching them to do everything by hand, so there is some hope for the future. (He is also a CAP cadet. Sorry, Ron: that loophole no longer exists -- but they do allow self-paced study and on-line testing.)

All true. I would point out, however, that learning to use an E6B really does not teach the fundamental principles, it just teaches one how to manipulate an E6B.

[rwanttaja]

This will probably show my level (or lack thereof) of knowledge, but aren't "wind triangles" just graphical vector addition?

Yep. And by using the term "just," you demonstrated that you're probably more intelligent than 95% of the people out there.... :-)

Ron "Thataway" Wanttaja

[Ivanstein]

Yep. And by using the term "just," you demonstrated that you're probably more intelligent than 95% of the people out there.... :-)

Ron "Thataway" Wanttaja

Well, not necessarily more intelligent, but more practiced...?

I have a minor in mathematics in addition to my AE degree. That is an elegant way of saying I have very little personality left and can bore the socks off anyone with things I find interesting.

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