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Thread: Security at OSH

  1. #51
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    So I broke down and looked it up. Knives longer than 4 inches are prohibited and it doesn't distinguish between fixed and folding blades. That would then imply that knives up to but not including 4" are allowed, whether folding or fixed blade. 4" is pretty long for anything but a combat knife and some of those are only 4". I would say that is a pretty generous rule. The stories here indicate that there may be a training problem on the part of the screeners and their managers. If there is a problem on that point, that is also an indicator that there may be problems in other aspects of their training.

    That said, there were some stalls selling some pretty mean looking knives at the Fly Market.

    Coolers. I do not understand why they are a security issue. I might understand prohibiting large coolers for other reasons, maybe, but security? The policy says aircraft campers can have larger coolers that remain at the campsite but only after they are inspected and tagged by security. Any campers have their coolers inspected and tagged?

    It also notes that bags are subject to random inspections, going back to the beginning of the thread. So some people may be checked and others not, consistent with the published policy.

    Is is it possible to avoid turning this into a 2A/right to carry argument? I think that there are enough other serious issues that can improve or better understand EAA security policy than to get into something that will have no good outcome. (And just so you know where I stand, I think that every argument for and against this by every poster on this thread has flaws -- even the ones I generally agree with.)
    Chris Mayer
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    So I broke down and looked it up. Knives longer than 4 inches are prohibited and it doesn't distinguish between fixed and folding blades. That would then imply that knives up to but not including 4" are allowed, whether folding or fixed blade. 4" is pretty long for anything but a combat knife and some of those are only 4". I would say that is a pretty generous rule. The stories here indicate that there may be a training problem on the part of the screeners and their managers. If there is a problem on that point, that is also an indicator that there may be problems in other aspects of their training.

    That said, there were some stalls selling some pretty mean looking knives at the Fly Market.

    Coolers. I do not understand why they are a security issue. I might understand prohibiting large coolers for other reasons, maybe, but security? The policy says aircraft campers can have larger coolers that remain at the campsite but only after they are inspected and tagged by security. Any campers have their coolers inspected and tagged?

    It also notes that bags are subject to random inspections, going back to the beginning of the thread. So some people may be checked and others not, consistent with the published policy.

    Is is it possible to avoid turning this into a 2A/right to carry argument? I think that there are enough other serious issues that can improve or better understand EAA security policy than to get into something that will have no good outcome. (And just so you know where I stand, I think that every argument for and against this by every poster on this thread has flaws -- even the ones I generally agree with.)
    I detest these threads. There are published rules (like the ones on coolers) that the EAA selectively enforces (I don't think they want coolers full of alcohol on the primary flightline). What I'd hate to see is a thread like this drive EAA to A) Bother campers about their coolers. B) Prohibit coolers in the campgrounds C) Whatever the next steps are.

    It is security theater. Recognize it as such and move on. My sense is EAA is following (not leading) the herd on this and has no great interest in cracking down on things as they are today. Let's not raise the topic to a noise level where it requires attention. More attention will not result in less security theater.
    Last edited by Kyle Boatright; 08-13-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #53

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    Maybe we have to trust that the folks who run EAA and put on a huge event like Airventure will find the right balance on security issues, and being respectful of the goodwill and good folks that exist inside the gates with the possible trouble points that unfortunately are part of the world outside. Some days, maybe even most days, it is sickening to look at the headlines, as if there is just no kindness left in the world.
    I dont come to Oskosh to think about how big a knife the rules will allow me to bring or if I can bring a gun, wouldnt go if I thought I needed either, I come to enjoy the planes and people.
    No one wants Osh to be like TSA at an airport.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 08-13-2017 at 08:35 AM.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by baboss View Post
    A couple of years ago we were held up at the entrance gate from the North 40 by what looked like a college aged "security" person. One guard was checking our backpack and another one at the table noticed my pocket knife clipped in my pocket. She told me no knives allowed and I had to read her the actual rules regarding blade length and everything while proceeding to bring up the rule on the EAA website. I got the feeling she didn't like being challenged and finally another security person came over and after some discussion let us in.
    This year the goofball security lady at the North 40 entrance asked if she could search our backpack and I casually replied "I guess". She didn't like that and told me I should follow all the rules and authorities. That pissed me off yet again but I somehow kept my mouth shut. This was the same lady that wanted to check our backpack as we were leaving the show grounds back into the North 40. Not sure why...
    That's a classic example of too much power for a wanna be pretend cop. Sure, we appreciate the volunteers that run the show, but they do need some training and reasonable discretion.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Well, I have a carry permit and own several pistols and a slew of various long guns. The guys who jump up and down and cry about constitutional right to carry guns into certain places they are reasonably denied are the people I am scared of. These are almost certainly the same guys who have had at least one negligent discharge in their life.
    Ron,

    I doubt you have stats to prove this. If more folks would cry out, support our constitution, and call the leader to be responsible, we wouldn't have the sheeple led country that we've had over the last 8 years. We certainly don't want over control and ridiculous policy at OSH. As an EAA member we should stand up for what we believe.

  6. #56
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Maybe we have to trust that the folks who run EAA and put on a huge event like Airventure will find the right balance on security issues, and being respectful of the goodwill and good folks that exist inside the gates with the possible trouble points that unfortunately are part of the world outside. Some days, maybe even most days, it is sickening to look at the headlines, as if there is just no kindness left in the world.
    I dont come to Oskosh to think about how big a knife the rules will allow me to bring or if I can bring a gun, wouldnt go if I thought I needed either, I come to enjoy the planes and people.
    No one wants Osh to be like TSA at an airport.
    OK Bill, I amend my previous post. I agree with everything you wrote in the post above.
    Chris Mayer
    N424AF
    www.o2cricket.com

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    You're deluded. None of the things you've claimed have ever been shown to be true, even in the FASCIST NRA's most optimistic slant on it.
    Who's deluded?

    USA hijackings increased when the armed federal air marshal program began? Increased security at major events usually includes decreased armed police presence, without plainclothes officers in the crowd? Deterrence to a threat usually provides potential bad actors a full knowledge of the defense they must breach? Bad guys choose hard targets? Leave your doors and windows unlocked and your keys in the car on your driveway overnight?

    Who's deluded?


    P.S.

    https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4077808
    Last edited by Mike M; 08-23-2017 at 08:39 AM.

  8. #58

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    I guess the trick to avoid being searched was to have a stroller. We had our 1 year old with stroller and associated diaper bags etc and was not searched once the entire 9 days we were there.

  9. #59
    Rick Rademacher's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by deftone View Post
    I guess the trick to avoid being searched was to have a stroller. We had our 1 year old with stroller and associated diaper bags etc and was not searched once the entire 9 days we were there.
    Or ride the Green tram from the Bus Park, out side the gate to the ATC tower only holding up your hand to show the wristband while traveling through the gate.

  10. #60

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    Just my two cents

    I think the difference here is that I don't pay the NFL the NBA or any other sports organization to defend me against purposeless government regulation. Conversely speaking I do pay the EAA to protect me from that.

    I don't think we would find a single person at EAA from Mr. Pelton on down that thinks the TSA is anything but security theater. To me it is about the highest in hypocrisy you can get the EAA subjecting it's membership to this joke of a search. Worse, beyond the inconvenience of it all, it lends credence to the notion that we in the public should just sit back and begin Accepting these purposeless searches as a normal fact of life. How can you protect me from overbearing regulation when you're actively participating in it yourselves - worse when you do it you do it with undertrained unqualified unsupervised without background checks volunteers? So what exactly is this security? How can you attack the TSA for what they do when you yourselves do it in a manner that is nothing but laughable?

    so yes there is a difference between the NBA and the EAA. One is a corporation whose primary purpose is to make money - Eaa on the other hand used to exist principaly to protect our rights as homebuilders and aviators. Creating the "TS EAA"to check security or paying for air traffic control Or a host of other things that have happened over the last few years would tend to call into question the If the core values of EAA remain those that Paul created it for.

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