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Thread: Arrival Issues

  1. #1
    Inspector Fenwick's Avatar
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    Arrival Issues

    When I post something like this, or my (annual) food/scurvy complaint, it is to be taken that I consider this event the best of it's kind, by far, than any other. I arrive with enthusiasm and I leave charged with a "life force" that, unfortunately, only lasts about 4 months at which time I am busy planning on the next Airventure.

    This post, however, is about my arrival on Saturday afternoon, the 22nd. There is no sense at all for me to complain about the blue and white Cessna I was following to 27 who completely disregarded the towers requests for him to land on the numbers. He was high and slow and finally went around. Oh, well.....overwhelmed, I guess.

    No, my issue is with the flag men directing traffic. If you are doing this, and you cannot see the pilots face in the windshield, then he/she is not seeing you wave your flags or your arms. During my L O N G taxi south to VAC, three times I had to stop, and rotate my plane, a large taildragger, in order to see the flag person. Then a grumpy scooter rider would ride up to give me the stink eye. This issue is basic ground marshaling 101. The pilot sits on the left and your waving arms and flags need to be lined up with the pilots line of sight, not far to the right side of the aircraft. The Vintage folks know this, but up north.....chaos.

    This issue was the talk of the town and hope some retraining occurred after Saturday.

    Thanks to ALL volunteers, goes without saying.
    Larry Nelson EAA 35011
    President EAA Chapter 821
    Springfield, MO
    PA 30 / Cessna 195

  2. #2
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll mention that to the FLS chair next time I talk to him. One of the really scary ones is some of the North 40 marshallers who seem to want you to put the prop right on them before they give you the next instruction. Sorry, I ain't getting that close no matter who you are.

  3. #3
    TedK's Avatar
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    You guys make some very valid points about the marshallers.

    Please permit be a modicum of thread drift, but remaining under the general topic of Arrival Issues (or in this case, lack of) to post a screenshot of my iPad showing the VFR arrivals into Ripon about 6:17 CT on Saturday the 22nd. In order to increase the utility of ADS-B approach OSH, commencing in 2016, the NOTAM permits everyone to keep their transponder on till they get to Ripon.

    From this screenshot, taken well before I arrived at Ripon, you could see the general funnel constricting down to the conga line at Ripon.

    As I approached Ripon, I had eyes on all the nearby traffic shown by ADS-B allowing me to concentrate on finding the few non sqawkers I knew must be there. Yep, there was one. Also close aboard to Ripon, I was watching for a Grumman Yankee I hadn't yet spotted but he and were verging toward the same spot. I was getting ready to do a Right 360 and resequence but spotted him rolling in behind me as we both approached Ripon.

    My my eyes are still plenty good for a 2nd class medical but they just are no longer eagle eyed. ADS-B traffic is a godsend.

    if you don't have ADS-B Out, please keep your transponder ON till after you are safely past Ripon. (If you have ADS-B Out, you keep it On).

    ted

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  4. #4
    Inspector Fenwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Yeah, I'll mention that to the FLS chair next time I talk to him. One of the really scary ones is some of the North 40 marshallers who seem to want you to put the prop right on them before they give you the next instruction. Sorry, I ain't getting that close no matter who you are.
    Ron, I was working in the Type Club Hangar on Sunday and mentioned the issue of the north side marshallers and he said "you need to go talk to OPS". Well, I stopped the OPS building on my way back to Row 85, and brought this issue up, but they apparently have no communication with the North Side Ops.

    BTW, I have never had this issue with the marshallers at VAC and VAP......
    Larry Nelson EAA 35011
    President EAA Chapter 821
    Springfield, MO
    PA 30 / Cessna 195

  5. #5

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    Unless they have ADSB out they will not show up on your ADSB Inn screen regardless of if their transponder is reporting or not.

  6. #6
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The rank and file Ops people in Vintage don't communicate directly with the FLS guys up north. We relay it up through our chairmen. However, I know one of the FLS chairs personally, so we've worked together on things (like maps of all the row numbers on the field) and he's worked margy's fly in events locally.

  7. #7
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grum.man View Post
    Unless they have ADSB out they will not show up on your ADSB Inn screen regardless of if their transponder is reporting or not.
    That's not true. TIS-B presents (within your hockey puck) everything ATC radar sees whether it's a pure mode A/C or Mode S ES or ADSB out.

  8. #8
    TedK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    That's not true. TIS-B presents (within your hockey puck) everything ATC radar sees whether it's a pure mode A/C or Mode S ES or ADSB out.
    You actually get more than that and can decide whether or not you just want the hockey puck traffic.

    If you look at my screenshot, the Tracks with an N number are ADS-B Out. Those with no N number are Transponder tracks, showing well outside the hockey puck ranges.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedK View Post
    You guys make some very valid points about the marshallers.

    Please permit be a modicum of thread drift, but remaining under the general topic of Arrival Issues (or in this case, lack of) to post a screenshot of my iPad showing the VFR arrivals into Ripon about 6:17 CT on Saturday the 22nd. In order to increase the utility of ADS-B approach OSH, commencing in 2016, the NOTAM permits everyone to keep their transponder on till they get to Ripon.

    From this screenshot, taken well before I arrived at Ripon, you could see the general funnel constricting down to the conga line at Ripon.

    As I approached Ripon, I had eyes on all the nearby traffic shown by ADS-B allowing me to concentrate on finding the few non sqawkers I knew must be there. Yep, there was one. Also close aboard to Ripon, I was watching for a Grumman Yankee I hadn't yet spotted but he and were verging toward the same spot. I was getting ready to do a Right 360 and resequence but spotted him rolling in behind me as we both approached Ripon.

    My my eyes are still plenty good for a 2nd class medical but they just are no longer eagle eyed. ADS-B traffic is a godsend.

    if you don't have ADS-B Out, please keep your transponder ON till after you are safely past Ripon. (If you have ADS-B Out, you keep it On).

    ted

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    Not quite true, Ron. There is no thread drift.
    Also, there may be more than a few (I know, "few" is a relative word) non-squawkers. These are the many who do NOT have ads-b out AND are required to squawk standby - in other words, you won't see them on your ads-b in/out. Also, there are those without ads-b who are also/should be squawking standby. You won't see these folks. And, finally, there are many many many who DO NOT fly with a transponder. So, unless you have the latestest, greatest most super duper airborne radar receiver which has the ability to skin paint a Ventura at 120 knots AND you have the time to sort out all of the "blips", well, sorry, you won't see these aircraft. Then, there those who are directed to break off the Fisk arrival or have chosen on there own to return to Rippon - - - AND, THE FAA HAS STILL HAS NOT TOLD US AT WHAT ALTITUDE WE SHOULD USE TO RETURN TO RIPPON!!!!, but, I digress. So, I will guess that you may only see 32.68% of the traffic displayed on your FAA unapproved ipad.
    And of coursec a hearty, "Thank You to all of the volunteers".

  10. #10
    steve's Avatar
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    My story:
    I arrived over Ripon about 4:30 local time on the 22nd. I was following a Red/White Citabria with the 1/2 mile spacing. The entire parade was flying slower than 90 kts but that's not a issue in my RV9A with it's big flaps set to 10 degrees. After a mile or so toward Fiske, I was passed by a 172 who squeezed in behind the Citabria. I decided to loop back to Ripon and start over. No big deal as I was out of ammo anyway.
    The controller at Fiske gave me the 36L approach. All right, almost home. About a mile before turning final, a different Citabria and a canard plane crossed in front of me heading south. Where did those planes come from? Did ATC tell them to fly south and cross the traffic on the 36 base leg? The canard was directed to land on 36R and the Citabria is still heading south for all I know.

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