RED Tram route opinions?

[CHICAGORANDY]

Regarding the Red route 'experiment' this year. Unlike last year it was decided to send ALL Red trams along the fence at the back of HBC. First they tried clockwise for about a half a day from the forums and then changed it to counter-clockwise which seemed to work better.

My trams stopped at several unmarked locations once we got back there and we tried to pick up any 'walkers' along the way when possible. The Orange lot pedestrian gate entrance at #35 was moved by EAA Safety and Security (I'm assuming) a block North from where it was earlier in the week to #36. I am told that they had an incident on I think Tuesday where pedestrians came through the gate and then decided to walk down the active runway with planes running on it. That event caused that gate to be chained shut for the duration.
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Per the OFFICIAL printed instruction sheet for shuttle workers given out at our Saturday orientation before the event opens, we are 'supposed' to make stops ONLY at the designated and marked/numbered shuttle stops, unless it is to assist someone with a handicap or very elderly. I cannot fault any conductor who went strictly by the book. Nor would I call out conductors who didn't.

We volunteers will have NO idea how the shuttles/trams will be run next year until our orientation meeting on 07/21/2018.

[CivEngPE]

The problem, for me, was that not all red trams were going to HBC. At first it was only one designated tram, then it seemed random. When I was on one tram and they missed the turn, I asked the conductor and I was told the maps were a mistake and they were not running to HBC. I just chalked it up to first time bugs. The other issue was when running clockwise most of the trams were completely full when they got to HBC. HBC was the first "real" stop after the tram depot, so all of the people heading to warbirds had to go through HBC.

I bet bet next year it will work much better and we all appreciate the hard work you guys do!

BTW, I was heading back to HBC after a function that involved adult beverages the first time I heard the EAA tree joke. I almost fell out of the tram laughing!

Regarding the Red route 'experiment' this year. Unlike last year it was decided to send ALL Red trams along the fence at the back of HBC. First they tried clockwise for about a half a day from the forums and then changed it to counter-clockwise which seemed to work better.

My trams stopped at several unmarked locations once we got back there and we tried to pick up any 'walkers' along the way when possible. The Orange lot pedestrian gate entrance at #35 was moved by EAA Safety and Security (I'm assuming) a block North from where it was earlier in the week to #36. I am told that they had an incident on I think Tuesday where pedestrians came through the gate and then decided to walk down the active runway with planes running on it. That event caused that gate to be chained shut for the duration.
.
Per the OFFICIAL printed instruction sheet for shuttle workers given out at our Saturday orientation before the event opens, we are 'supposed' to make stops ONLY at the designated and marked/numbered shuttle stops, unless it is to assist someone with a handicap or very elderly. I cannot fault any conductor who went strictly by the book. Nor would I call out conductors who didn't.

We volunteers will have NO idea how the shuttles/trams will be run next year until our orientation meeting on 07/21/2018.

[shack42]

Message from an English tram driver (AV 2017) - I agree that the removal of the red route stop s/bound confused a lot of people, The biggest problem however was pedestrians who thought that they had right of way over a tram and refused to move over. You weigh about 180 lbs, my tram weighs considerably more and cannot stop in 3 feet nor turn on a sixpence so please take care and watch/listen for us as we had enough problems with having to watch for 'planes, lorries, motorcycles, delivery vehicles etc.,

[FlyingRon]

I don't know how things are on your side of the pond, but here in the US, pedestrians nearly universally have right of way over vehicles. You need to drive your tractor at a safe speed and prepare to slow or stop to yield to them.

[mazdaP5]

Message from an English tram driver (AV 2017) - I agree that the removal of the red route stop s/bound confused a lot of people, The biggest problem however was pedestrians who thought that they had right of way over a tram and refused to move over. You weigh about 180 lbs, my tram weighs considerably more and cannot stop in 3 feet nor turn on a sixpence so please take care and watch/listen for us as we had enough problems with having to watch for 'planes, lorries, motorcycles, delivery vehicles etc.,

If pedestrians gave way for every vehicle on the grounds every time, we'd never get anywhere. Too many trams, lorries, motorcycles, delivery vehicles etc.

[DaleB]

Common sense and common courtesy when crossing roads works well for everyone. It's not that big of an ordeal to wait a few seconds for a gap in traffic when crossing the roads where the trams/shuttles run.

Dad always told me, it doesn't matter who had the right of way if you're squashed flat.

[CHICAGORANDY]

No matter how wide the road, sharing it with airplanes, vehicles, tractors, shuttle cars, scooters, golf carts, mobility scooters AND a gazillion pedestrians - NONE of whom are paying attention - presents its fair share of problems for them all.

It is perhaps a wonderful miracle that so few accidents happen. I don't recall ever hearing about any shuttle/tram vs pedestrian injury incidents. Not saying they never happen, just that in my experience they don't seem to. A tribute to all the volunteer drivers and conductors out there.

[FlyingRon]

A few years back a tram managed to chase Jim Campbell into a puddle (although I'll admit it was the Vintage tram, I know the driver).

[Mayhemxpc]

When I was learning to drive (back when Beetles and Chevy Vans were cool)...we were taught that right of way was yours to give, not to take. Now I don't even think they teach the notion of right of way in the United States.

Pedestrians have right of way in a cross walk, not wandering about the middle of the street -- unless that entire street is designated as a pedestrian zone. Does that apply to all the roads during AirVenture? Personally, I think that anyone walking in the middle of Knapp, rather than on one of the paths on either side, is less than being completely responsible (sometime called "stupid.") The area around the main hangars and displays is another matter entirely. I think that in that area pedestrians should be exercising due regard for persons and things around them, but have a reasonable expectation that they can walk freely. Wittman road does not have paths, so it is a matter of sharing the road. -- and exercising common sense, which seems to be increasingly uncommon.

The exception is golf carts. I do not believe that should have any priority or right of way over anyone!

[shack42]

I appreciate that the roads are crowded during AV - I mentioned the pedesrian problem because many of them, especially the youngsters, seemd to be more interested in their mobiles/tablets than actually trying to be aware of traffic. As to manoeuvering - pedestrians can stop, change direction or move off in one step (18") Trams, weighing full about 2 1/2 tons (metric, short, long - take your pick) cannot. Us drivers have our passengers to think about. Try stopping a 2 ton 4 x 4 at 7 mph (our speed at most) and see how long it takes to stop. I consider myself a very experienced driver having driven just about everything from a 49cc moped to 5 ton lorries, aircraft tugs with 'plane attached, artillery tractors with limber and 25 pdr howitzer and buses, the only vehicles missing are tracked vehicles and artics (semis). I've also driven around Elkhart Lake.