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Thread: Road Rage, Air Rage

  1. #11

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    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 07-09-2017 at 10:16 PM.

  2. #12
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Rwanttaja, could you start your own topic if you want to talk about guns, and airplanes,this is not that one.
    With all due respect:

    1. I was not the person who introduced the subject of guns to this topic.
    2. When I did mention them, it was in the context of, essentially, "Forum Rage." I deliberately did not include any details of the gun debate that led to the rage itself, to preclude inciting those who would wish to engage in those kinds of discussions.
    3. So far, I am the ONLY one who has provided a first-person account of being present at a General Aviation Air Rage incident.

    Ron "And this is the thanks I get" Wanttaja

  3. #13
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    Maybe we should talk about "forum rage", since there seems to be no real evidence of an "air rage" problem.

    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. I am building a Fisher Celebrity, slowly.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    ...similar anger case,no guns, on another web site a few years back in Florida, older man was making a straight in landing, Baron or K maybe, at uncontrolled field, and on a 2 mile final a student pilot on downwind turned final in front of him, The straight in pilot thought everyone should get out of his way and theatened to attack the kid in the Cessna in the web site and I think on Unicom...

    Good points there. An approach category A or B aircraft isn't even in the traffic pattern airspace when two miles out. (FAA Order 7400.2K Figure 6-3-9) And from the AIM, "c. The following terminology for the variouscomponents of a traffic pattern has been adopted asstandard for use by control towers and pilots....5. Final approach. A flight path in thedirection of landing along the extended runwaycenterline from the base leg to the runway."

    In the traffic pattern airspace and from base leg to the runway. Hmmm.
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  5. #15
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    Maybe we should talk about "forum rage", since there seems to be no real evidence of an "air rage" problem.
    You are an icky person, and I demand that Hal ban you for life!

    The extent of my qualifications to discuss psychiatric issues is listed in very, very fine print at the bottom of my engineering diploma. But, of course, that hasn't stopped me before.

    There's a lot of factors involved. They vary by circumstance, which is why it's not so easy to generate a "Unified Field Theory" about Rage cases.

    "Road Rage" cases, I think, are driven by driver's sense of isolation, and the perception of their being in a "bubble" that is inviolate. Having someone cut them off brings it sharply to their attention that this is not the case. Some don't react very well to that.

    "Air Rage" cases (airline ones) are probably just pure frustration. People rush to get to the airport, stand in line to drop off their bags, stand in the TSA line to get poked and prodded, sit in a crowded terminal fretting about making their connections, then get packed cheek to jowl with a bunch of strangers. With some aspect of it goes non-linear, some don't react to it very well.

    "Forum Rage" is typically different, I believe. Where the previous two involve people who are under pressure who undergo a triggering event, "Forum Rage" builds. It is, again, a "bubble" condition, where a person has a mental image of how the world should be and is outraged to find others that have different world-views. Unlike the others, though, this is typically something that builds, rather than being an instant loss of temper. Though with "hot button" issues like guns, it doesn't take long to get some folks wound up.

    "GA Pilot Rage" (we need a snazzier term) is probably a combination of all the above. Our "bubbles" are not just related to dinged sheet metal; our very lives are at risk. Planning and executing a flight can be complex, and extremely frustrating when some element goes wrong.

    The "Forum Rage" tie-in is there, too. Many pilots are incredibly pedantic. Just look at the massive arguments that occur about interpreting the FARs. In a high-stress flying situation (again, lives at risk), someone behaving other than the observer's personal world-view might really trigger a sense of outrage.

    The case I witnessed had a lot of factors in it. The pilot was highly educated (doctorate in physics, IIRC) and wealthy. He owned a lot of toys (in the big-boy, expensive toy categories), but the impression I got was that these were more to impress other people. Surest way to be friends with him was to feed his ego. He'd brag about the value of his toys, but like many rich people was an incredible penny-pincher.

    He also had a substance-abuse problem. I'm not much of a drinker, but was rather taken aback when I stopped by his hotel room that weekend and saw the large portable bar he's brought with him. This wasn't Utah, this was Missouri...liquor was easily available. But he lugged that bar in the 210 wherever he flew.

    It should be said that no one witnessed him flying under the influence. He either stayed sober to fly (my guess), or he knew how to hide it.

    However, when he crashed, the autopsy found two prescription drugs in his system, both liable to impair him. He also had other prescription drugs, which hadn't been reported on his FAA medical. He'd had a back injury and resulting chronic pain for years. It's quite likely that the pain made him more sensitive to disturbances in his world-view. He had some personality clashes towards the end of his life that people who had been his friends; the pain, and perhaps the drugs, was likely an aspect of it. One mutual acquaintance was married to an MD, he told me the pilot tried to coerce his wife into writing painkiller prescriptions for him, and dropped them completely when she refused.

    No accident has a single cause; it's always a string of events which, if broken, would mitigate or even completely avoid the event. We don't know what his mood was the morning he died. He did have a bit of get-home-itis, with a pending meeting. But he and his wife climbed into their recently-purchased hired-gun-built high performance aircraft.

    What we do know is that he took off, and when they climbed past 500 feet, the canopy popped open and stuff from the baggage compartment started coming out.

    The type of plane he was flying could fly with its front-hinged canopy ajar. But the plane rolled slightly to the left and descended into the ground.

    What happened in those few seconds? We don't know. While his wife survived, she doesn't remember the accident.

    But... we can speculate. This was a pilot with a short fuse, and a massive ego. Did he fail to lock the canopy? Or was there actually a problem with the latch? If so, he probably would have been outraged at the builder. Either way, most observers would assume it was his fault.

    He would have been burning with embarrassment, a hard thing for a man with an ego his size. He wasn't going to fly back and see everyone snickering. My guess is that he twisted right in his seat, looked up and grabbed the canopy, trying to get it down and latched so he wouldn't have to turn around and land. Knowing him, knowing the substance issues, knowing his temper...well, I think he lost it. I think controlling the airplane was the last thing on his mind, and he screamed imprecations at the canopy all the way to ground contact. Witnesses didn't report any attempt at recovery prior to impact.

    We can't say for sure that this was an "Air Rage" case. But as I mentioned, I'd witnessed him in such a state before. Sure, there wasn't another airplane around for him to blame this time. But the same factors may have been at play.

    Most of us aviation nuts have probably seen a two-man play called "Billy Bishop Goes to War." There's a song in there that speaks to the need stay focussed on what you're doing, if you want to live. When I replace the word "Fight" with "Fly", you've got a pretty good mantra for ALL pilots. I often hum it on the way to my plane:

    "So when you fly, stay as calm as the ocean
    and watch what's going on behind your shoulder.
    You know the air's not the place for deep emotion
    and maybe...you'll get....
    .... a little older."


    Ron "Off to fight the Hun" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 07-09-2017 at 10:52 AM.

  6. #16
    CarlOrton's Avatar
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    Ron, I always appreciate the pragmatic yet data-driven approach to your posts. If you're going to be at Convention, I'd like to stop by and shake your hand.

    Carl Orton
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    "Forum Rage" is typically different, I believe. Where the previous two involve people who are under pressure who undergo a triggering event, "Forum Rage" builds. It is, again, a "bubble" condition, where a person has a mental image of how the world should be and is outraged to find others that have different world-views. Unlike the others, though, this is typically something that builds, rather than being an instant loss of temper. Though with "hot button" issues like guns, it doesn't take long to get some folks wound up.
    OK, that does it. Blunderbusses and balloons at dawn!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlOrton View Post
    Ron, I always appreciate the pragmatic yet data-driven approach to your posts. If you're going to be at Convention, I'd like to stop by and shake your hand.
    Thanks, Carl. Love to meet you, but I rarely come to the Convention. Now that I'm retired, though, I might make it next year or so.

    Ron Wanttaja

  9. #19

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    Trying to get back to the original point, I don't think we see a lot of "air rage" for some pretty simple reasons:

    1) People flying airplanes know that collisions while in flight are really, really, really bad.

    2) Airplanes are expensive. It's one thing to bump another's car at a stop light; it's quite another to bump another airplane.

    3) Very few really impulsive, emotional people are pilots. The training and requirements for pilots really weeds out the super impatient hot heads.

    4) The demographics of the GA pilot population has aged. Would I have a conversation with a pilot that did something stupid in the pattern in front of me? Yep. And I have. But my brawling days are behind me, as it is for most of the folks behind a stick.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  10. #20
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    Over the years, I've either encountered or was a part of situations that could have developed into a "GA air rage" incident, given the opportunity. Heck, I've been the one at fault in a couple of them! But the only one I've seen which appeared to be a full-fledged case of "GA air rage" occurred at my airplane's home-drome, KGXY (Greeley, CO), just a couple of years ago.

    GXY has incredibly benign weather most of the time, other than it's pretty hot in the summer. The runways are in a lazy T set-up, 10/28 (5801') and 17/35 (10,000'). http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1707/00325AD.PDF It's non-towered, so we're on our own. Management has decreed that 35 is the calm wind runway, but nobody follows that, so usually 10 is the one in use on calm days. But people land the way they want to, and existing traffic by law isn't "in charge" of "the active"--there is no "active".

    On the day of the event, a Sunday, an Eagle (aerobatic biplane) from elsewhere was doing touch and goes and stop and goes on 17--good guess that it was a student and instructor. They were in that pattern when I drove up and still there as I taxied out. If there was any wind, I couldn't tell that it was much, but the AWOS said there was maybe 2-3 knots from the south. There's a large run-up pad near the taxiway to 35, which I used before heading on north to the approach end of 17. This is what I heard over the radio, as best I can recall, starting from when I turned on my radios:

    The Eagle pilot had consistently announced pattern positions to 17. He had just announced on base for 17.
    310: Greeley traffic, twin Cessna xxx is on a 12 mile final for 35.
    Eagle: Cessna twin, be advised that current traffic is using 17.
    310: Greeley traffic, twin Cessna xxx is on a 10 mile final for 35.

    The Eagle continued in the pattern, announcing his position on crosswind, downwind, base and final. Also meanwhile, the wind had picked up a bit, more definitely favoring 17.

    310: Greeley traffic, twin Cessna xxx is on a 5 mile final for 35.
    Eagle: Cessna twin, the wind is favoring 17, and traffic is using 17.
    310: Lookee here, sonny, this here is a big ol' 310, and I'm gonna use 35. You get your little toy outta my way, or we can meet inside the terminal and settle this like men.
    Eagle: Eagle xxx is departing the pattern.

    The 310 landed. As I taxied from the run-up pad, I saw that it was at the high speed taxiway that is for 17 traffic, a bit whopper-jawed but off the runway. The pilot and his passenger were just stepping off the wing. I pulled onto that taxiway and shut down to see if I could help. As I started to walk from my airplane to his, I was greeted with,
    "What the h--l do you want?"
    "I was just checking to see if you needed help."
    "Nah, the goddam tire went flat. I don't need your f-----g help!"

    I got back in my airplane, cranked up, and as I continued taxiing, I overheard on the radio:
    310: Greeley Unicom, twin Cessna xxx, I've got a flat tire. Send someone out to fix it."
    Unicom (in an incredibly sugary sweet voice): I'm sorry sir, but it's Sunday, and there aren't any mechanics on the field today.
    310: Then what the h--l am I supposed to do with my goddam airplane?
    Unicom (same sweet voice): I don't know sir, but I'll be glad to send our ramp person out to pick you up.
    310: Never mind, we'll f----g walk!

    So I took off, and an hour or so later, I returned. The 310 was still there. After putting my airplane away, I went into the terminal and asked the girl at the desk whatever happened to the nasty guy with the 310. She told me that he must have phoned someone, because he and his passenger had just left in a car. She said he was still cussing a blue streak as they went out the door.

    The next afternoon, I was there, and the 310 was gone. But several times I've thought that he got his comeuppance--probably landed hot with a little tailwind, slid his tires trying to make that taxiway, and that's why his tire blew.

    Cary
    "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth...,
    put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee

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