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Thread: Airline Does It Again

  1. #1

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    Airline Does It Again

    This is about the 3rd or 4th story re a case of an airline wanting to take a passengers seat even after the passenger had bought, paid for his ticket, been confirmed, assinged a seat and even boarded and was sitting in the seat. Of course the big story was United ( Republic) who called airport security who injured a 69 year old doctor in dragging him off the plane.United was getting terrible negative publicity, would have been worse in court, the passenger even had former DOT chairman come out on his side, legally. So finally United proabaly listned to their legal department or pr people and the settled out of court in near record time. My gues would be for at least $5million.
    Now comes Delta, no one hit, but threats made and false ones at that. Delta had previoulsy paid $10,000 to a family to voluntairly give up seats. Not this time.
    Parents had bought. paid for conrirmed, boarded and were seated with there 2 infants in safety seats next to them for a long Hawaii to Cailfornia flight, when Delta decided they wanted that seat. No $10,000 but a lot of theats. The gate person actually told the passengers that they were "going to jail and their kids taken away and sent to foster care". I am not making this up or exaggerating, its right there on the video. Just as bad, the person tells the Dad that law requires the infant under 2 to be sit on his lap and cant be in a safety seat. This is an direct lie, FAA advises that all infants should be in a safety seat and had issued a statement as such. I once had the same thing happen years ago, that time I won the dispute. After forcing this family off the plane, resulting in them spending ovegight and paying thousands of $ more, now Delta has apologized.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-05-2017 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #2

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    By the way, this wasnt the pilots, just like the United case the pilots werent involved .A few years ago the airlines were routinely holding passengers hostage as long as 8 hours on the ground without taking off and even if there were not adequte restrooms or food and water. Just didnt seem to care, and the result was passenger action which led to a new DOT law that limits hostage stranding over 2 hours, and this has cured almost all such events, fines finally brought out some fair treatment. Had to do it the hard way.
    This may go the same way. The United ceo Munez has just been called to testify. Can you see the Delta exec being questioned and having to answer, "Did your employee really threaten a Mother with taking her babies away to be sent to foster care" over a seat?
    If the airlines dont quit this kind of thing new laws will lilkely result, doing it the hard way. Southwest has announced that they are stopping overbooking. I am not a SW employee but I have SW stock. We all at EAA have menbers and friends who are with airlines and we all want to see good service.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-05-2017 at 11:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    Bill, you described the Delta event quite well and set out most of the details of what occurred with the exception of stating that their teenage son took another flight and the parents were using his boarding pass for that toddler. WTF is wrong with airline employees? Bad training? Flight attendants and gate staff going rogue and making up the rules on the fly? Threatening, bullying and abusing(physically, mentally and emotionally) is official policy?

    They have recent bad behaviour airline events in their immediate minds and they still continue to behave badly. It's insane! Like I stated in the other thread, this must be the result of a deeply entrenched sociopathic culture across the entire airline industry.

    I don't understand why this Delta situation was not handled satisfactorily at the gate before boarding? How did the toddler get on the plane with the teenage son's boarding pass?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post

    I don't understand why this Delta situation was not handled satisfactorily at the gate before boarding? How did the toddler get on the plane with the teenage son's boarding pass?
    Obviously, no one checked the 2 yr old's ID. A quick thinking dad could have just said the "this is...(name of the 18 yr old).."
    I don't recall any FAA rep at the recent congressional hearing.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Bill, you described the Delta event quite well and set out most of the details of what occurred with the exception of stating that their teenage son took another flight and the parents were using his boarding pass for that toddler. WTF is wrong with airline employees? Bad training? Flight attendants and gate staff going rogue and making up the rules on the fly? Threatening, bullying and abusing(physically, mentally and emotionally) is official policy?

    They have recent bad behaviour airline events in their immediate minds and they still continue to behave badly. It's insane! Like I stated in the other thread, this must be the result of a deeply entrenched sociopathic culture across the entire airline industry.

    I don't understand why this Delta situation was not handled satisfactorily at the gate before boarding? How did the toddler get on the plane with the teenage son's boarding pass?
    I suspect this is yet another case of "guilty by social media" until proven innocent, at least in part.

    While I don't condone what the Delta flight attendant said to the family, what the family did was attempted theft. Is anyone in favor of a criminal?

    As I understand, the family had purchased four seats and sent the teenage son ahead; thus three seats were left. Yet the family claimed four seats (even though they didn't pay for 5). While I don't know how the family got a boarding pass for the toddler, I suspect they didn't actually have 4 for this flight - a "lap child" in airline parlance and so without a seat assignment - it may have been the receipt from the purchase. And since a toddler wouldn't normally have a seat assignment, the gate agents wouldn't have bothered to ask for one.

    I strongly suspect that there's a lot more to this story and we've only heard one side. And given the short attention span of the media and the public in general, we'll probably never hear the whole story either. Sad.

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    "Attempted theft"? Not as far as one can tell from the video and news reoprts. The Father is clearly heard telling the ailline person that they paid for the seat the infant is in. Just like when I traveled with my kids when little. So we can assume the family is not trying to get something for free, rather has 4 boaring passesfor 4 people. The older son was not traveling on that day. However there is also the matter of safety, the family wants their infant in a safety seat and the airline person is clearly heard tellign the Father falsely that the chilid legally has to be held in his lap. Unsafe and exactly the opposite of what FAA says. The airline wanted that seat so badly they were willing to have the infant fly usecured, thjereaten the parents and tell false information re safety. Again why diddnt they try offering money, maybe $5000 would have found a volunteer?
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-08-2017 at 04:16 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    "Attempted theft"? Not as far as one can tell from the video and news reoprts. The Father is clearly heard telling the ailline person that they paid for the seat the infant is in. Just like when I traveled with my kids when little. So we can assume the family is not trying to get something for free. However there is also the matter of safety, the family wants their infant in a safety seat and the airline person is clearly heard tellign the Father falsely that the chilid legally has to be held in his lap. Unsafe and exactly the opposite of what FAA says. The airline wanted that seat so badly they were willing to have the infant fly usecured.
    Thanks for the reply. My understanding is quite different than yours. As I understand it, the family purchased four tickets, but tried to use five seats. Was - or was not - the family of 5; Mom, Dad, teenager and two youngsters (including the toddler)?

  8. #8

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    No the teenager was not with them. 2 parents, 2 infants in 2 safety seats. By the way, while rare, Aerflot hit severe turbulence, injured 27 people and 3 infants had broken spines.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    No the teenager was not with them. 2 parents, 2 infants in 2 safety seats. By the way, while rare, Aerflot hit severe turbulence, injured 27 people and 3 infants had broken spines.
    Thanks for reply, Bill. I did hear about the Aeroflot incident and I'd support legislation to require that babies and toddlers be in car seats; I've had that opinion for decades.

    Your reply also made my point about theft. The family (of 5) purchased 4 tickets (NOT 5). Then the teenager went ahead, so one of the 4 tickets/seats was used, eh?

    So that leaves three seats, doesn't it? Yet the family tried to use 4 seats. One each for the parents (so that's 2) and then one each for each of the car seats - so that's 2 more. Or 4 on this single flight. PLUS the teenager's (1) seat, that's five seats, isn't it? Yet they reportedly paid for only 4.

    I don't know all the details, like how the family got a boarding pass for the disputed seat* (the one assigned to another passenger since the teenager had already used the ticket originally associated with that seat), but insisting on 5 seats when you've paid for 4 isn't correct, is it?

    If I came to your store and paid for 4 widgets, but then took only 1 home with me, then later came back and tried to walk out the door with 4 (so a total of 5 in two visits), wouldn't you consider that "widget theft?"

    In no case do I support what the flight attendant reportedly said to the family.

    *Or if they actually had a boarding pass for that seat.
    Last edited by CDS; 05-08-2017 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #10

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    CDS, where are you getting your info that the 4 people only had 3 tickets? Its not in any report that I found. The teenager was not there, had nothing to do with this flight, wasnt even traveling that day, was already back in home state. So not a family of 5 that day or this flight.
    I am relying on the video which I watched several times. The Dad said to the airline person, that HE PAID FOR FOR THE SEAT that was used by the infant. NOWHERE DOES THE AIRLINE PERSON DISPUTE THIS, THEY NEVER TELL THE fATHER THAT HE HASNT PAID FOR THE SEAT OR THAT HE OWES ExtraFOR THE 4TH SEAT OF ASKED TO SEE THE 4TH TICKET. Thats not in the video. So I assume the Dad was telling the truth, The Dad never claims that the infant should fly for free, although some airlines have alllowed parents to use a seat free for an infant if the plane iS not full. THE CLAIM BY THE AIRLINE IS THE FALSE ONE, DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO FAA POLICY, THAT THE INFANT IS REQUIRED TO BE HELD IN A LAP, and THAT IS CLEARLY SAID RIGHT ON THE VIDEO. So when the Dad insists on the safest way with both infants in safety seats, they are treathend with jail and having kids taken away. Even if the Dad didnt have a 4th ticket, dont believe that is a safety matter nor a jail offense nor should it be. The airline had offeredn another family $10,000 who agreed to give up 4 seats, but here we only see threats. The airline had no concern for the safety or comfort of the infant for an 8 hour flight, they just want his seat due to overbooking.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-11-2017 at 05:00 PM.

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