Hand propping questions

[DaleB]

I'm curious about a couple of things regarding planes with no starter or electrical system. I'm in the early stages of building a biplane and am starting to ponder the engine choices. I want to build simple and light, but not limit where (aside from transponder requirements) and how I can fly. In other words... I want to be able to fly somewhere, land, shut down, then fly back home without needing someone else to help out. I don't want to be that guy you read about whose plane wanders off and impacts something, but I also don't want to have to have a ground crew to fly. So - the following questions are specifically related to a biplane with a small Continental up front.

I get the hand prop process. How, though, would one handle a hand-propped tail dragger solo, especially when away from the home field? I've seen and read about a tail hook with a cockpit release -- but what would you hook it to? I imagine using wheel chocks would be an option, but if flying alone pulling the chocks from the cockpit would seem to be a challenge with a wing in the way. I need to figure out how it's done both on pavement and on grass.

Educate me, guys.

[rwanttaja]

When you fly to another airport, just pick out a standard tiedown spot to park. When you're ready to go, take one of the tiedown ropes, tie a loop in it, and put that in your tail hook.

Carry a hank of rope and a knife in your airplane. If you end up stopping somewhere away from existing tiedown ropes, cut off a piece of your own rope and tie it to a fence post, etc. Keep in mind, too, that the ropes left at the tiedowns may not be of the best quality, and you might have to sacrifice a bit of your own rope instead. I've been places where just a moderate tug on the tiedown rope will shatter it.

If you're at a fly-in or other activity, there's often someone who can flip the prop for you. Otherwise, brief someone, put them in the cockpit, and have them hold the brakes while YOU start the airplane. You can still take charge of manipulating the throttle and working the switches, you just need a meat parking brake.

I flew N500F, the prototype Fly Baby, for seven years. Hand propping all the way. Was only twice that I had to prop it with no one in the cockpit and the not tail tied down. The first happened after a landing at a remote grass strip with no one around. The second was when the engine quietly quit on short final on a 15-degree day.

Finally, remember that the rules excluding the need for transponders and ADSB refer to an engine-driven electrical system. It doesn't preclude having a starter and battery. Install both, include an external power plug, and top off the battery occasionally. I flew my current Fly Baby for a year with a dead generator.

Tail hook information:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/tailhook.html

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike M]

Finally, remember that the rules excluding the need for transponders and ADSB refer to an engine-driven electrical system. It doesn't preclude having a starter and battery. Install both, include an external power plug, and top off the battery occasionally.

That's good advice.

Buddyamine had a VariEze with no generator, put a battery in the nose and a solar panel inside the canopy over the rear seater's head.

Be experimental

[DaleB]

Oh, I know the transponder & ADS-B requirements. I was thinking about a starter and small battery, with a charging port. Maybe even a little wind generator, it's mot like an extra couple pounds of drag will make much of a difference. I'm told this airplane has the glide ratio of a Steinway. But a Continental starter is either really heavy or really expensive. I'm absolutely not set on hand-propping; I'd much, much rather hit the button and go. I just want to have enough information to make an informed decision, in case (for example) I run across a killer deal on a C-85-8 or something.

I don't plan to do a lot of cross country flying, although if I finish it I will fly it to Oshkosh. But, there are a lot of places I'd like to be able to go, land, have lunch or whatever, fly home. I know people have done it for decades without batteries and starters, just trying to find out how.

[Anymouse]

Finally, remember that the rules excluding the need for transponders and ADSB refer to an engine-driven electrical system. It doesn't preclude having a starter and battery. Install both, include an external power plug, and top off the battery occasionally. I flew my current Fly Baby for a year with a dead generator.

Do you know if there's an option out there for doing this with a T-Craft(65 HP)? The Armstrong starter I'm using now gets worn out easily in cold weather.

[martymayes]

Do you know if there's an option out there for doing this with a T-Craft(65 HP)? The Armstrong starter I'm using now gets worn out easily in cold weather.

A -8 engine doesn't have any kind of provision for a starter so you'd have to adapt your own starter and get it approved.

[lathropdad]

I flew a J3 Cub for several years. I hand propped that plane by standing in front of the right side wheel. I could reach in and control the mags and throttle. I propped the engine from the back side of the prop with a foot blocking the wheel. I never was comfortable doing it this way but it worked fine.

[martymayes]

How, though, would one handle a hand-propped tail dragger solo, especially when away from the home field? I've seen and read about a tail hook with a cockpit release -- but what would you hook it to?

I didn't have a tail hook that could be released from the cockpit so I would untie the tail with the engine at idle and wheels chocked then reel the chocks in by their tether while standing in the door opening right before entering the cockpit. While I wasn't physically inside the cockpit, I could readily access the controls if needed. Never had the plane pull a "Christine" and advance the throttle by itself when I wasn't looking.

The only way I would do that today is if there was absolutely no way to install a starter. If at all possible to install a starter - one of those lightweight permanent magnet jobs would be the ticket. A battery with no charging system is good for several starts so I can't imagine that ever being an issue. Even on an overnight somewhere, as long as a 110v receptacle is available could just plug in a portable charger like those used for charging computer batteries to top off the battery.

[DaleB]

A -8 engine doesn't have any kind of provision for a starter so you'd have to adapt your own starter and get it approved.

Or there's this: https://www.facebook.com/SafestartStarterSystems/

Although why anyone would use Facebook for any sort of business venture is beyond my comprehension. If you don't have a Facebook account (I do not and will not) you can only see half the flippin' page. </rant>

[rwanttaja]

Oh, I know the transponder & ADS-B requirements. I was thinking about a starter and small battery, with a charging port. Maybe even a little wind generator, it's mot like an extra couple pounds of drag will make much of a difference. I'm told this airplane has the glide ratio of a Steinway. But a Continental starter is either really heavy or really expensive. I'm absolutely not set on hand-propping; I'd much, much rather hit the button and go. I just want to have enough information to make an informed decision, in case (for example) I run across a killer deal on a C-85-8 or something.

Well...depending on what you're flying the stock Continental starter isn't that bad. 25-30 pounds, something like that. Keep in mind that if your engine has a pull-type starter, the aftermarket jobs won't work out of the box. You have to cut off a pilot shaft in the Continental accessory case.

If you don't have the pilot shaft, you can install the battery (need it for the radio, anyway), wiring, and switch, and just put a blank plate over the starter hole. Then, if you ever get tired of hand-propping, you can just pop the starter in.

Ron Wanttaja