View Poll Results: What are your plans for ADS-B Compliance

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  • I have already installed certified ADS-B Out in my airplane. I'm good to go.

    7 21.21%
  • I have not yet installed certified ADS-B Out, but I intend to comply before Jan. 1, 2020.

    8 24.24%
  • I have not yet installed certified ADS-B Out, but may consider sometime after Jan. 1, 2020.

    9 27.27%
  • I have no intentions -- ever -- of installing certified ADS-B Out in my airplane

    9 27.27%
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Thread: Poll: Your plans for ADS-B Out compliance

  1. #21

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    [QUOTE=Mark van Wyk;61992]I don't know the exact rules regarding Class B, particularly in your area, but if Mode C is required where you currently fly, I would think that you would not legally be able to fly without ADS

    Like I said, I live under the Class B, not in it.

    Please read the regs. 91.225
    A transponder and ADSB is not required in the Mode C veil, if,...the aircraft doesn't have an engine driven electrical system.

    (e) The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders. These aircraft may conduct operations without ADS–B Out in the airspace specified in paragraphs (d)(2) and (d)(4) of this section. Operations authorized by this section must be conducted—

    Most people assume that all aircraft must have Mode C and ADSB. Some of us have antique or classic planes that are not required to have any of that equipment. I don't operate in Class B or C and I will never climb above 10,000' either.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by champ driver View Post
    Like I said, I live under the Class B, not in it.

    Please read the regs. 91.225
    A transponder and ADSB is not required in the Mode C veil, if,...the aircraft doesn't have an engine driven electrical system.

    (e) The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders. These aircraft may conduct operations without ADS–B Out in the airspace specified in paragraphs (d)(2) and (d)(4) of this section. Operations authorized by this section must be conducted—

    Most people assume that all aircraft must have Mode C and ADSB. Some of us have antique or classic planes that are not required to have any of that equipment. I don't operate in Class B or C and I will never climb above 10,000' either.
    Got it! Thanks.

  3. #23
    Poll results from various aviation web sites, as of 04/21/17. Thus far, the rich airplane owners of AOPA have the highest percentage of compliance. Others -- not so much.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #24
    Auburntsts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    Poll results from various aviation web sites, as of 04/21/17. Thus far, the rich airplane owners of AOPA have the highest percentage of compliance. Others -- not so much.
    Statistically biased data. AOPA forum members (like me and I also participated in your poll there too) aren't necessaily rich (I'm certainly not), just the owner population over at AOPA is more likely to own aircraft and fly in airspace that will require compliance if they want to maximize utility. I'm compliant because my plane is relatively new and when I was putting together the panel it made since to equip it with ADS-B out from the get go.

    So with all of this polling, what is your goal?
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
    EAA Lifetime Member
    WAR DAMN EAGLE!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
    ...So with all of this polling, what is your goal?...
    Find out how many are complying; how many are thinking about it; and how many have made up their minds not to comply.
    Also, I am finding out from other airplane owners the amount of time, money, and hassle they have spent, or are planning to spend, to install these complex systems.
    And, I am trying to find a system I can justify installing in my C-150. Like another person wrote on this forum, I'm not going to pay more than 5 percent of the value of my airplane for a newfangled new transponder.

  6. #26
    Auburntsts's Avatar
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    Well ok, but does it really matter what other folks are doing? By now you have a real good feel for the cost, and the limitations/benefits of non-compliance/compliance (which IIRC from the AOPA threads was pretty minimal for you personally). It's OK not to install it for whatever the reason, just as it's OK to install it for whatever reason--it's your plane and your money so you don't need to justify your decision to anyone but yourself.
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
    EAA Lifetime Member
    WAR DAMN EAGLE!

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    Find out how many are complying; how many are thinking about it; and how many have made up their minds not to comply.
    Be careful how you define "not comply". As long as you don't fly in airspace that requires a transponder or fly an aircraft that needs a transponder today (see Champ Driver's posts), you don't need ADS-B, and you ARE COMPLIANT. It's not being "resistant" if you're not required to have it.

    "Not Complying" would be flying in airspace that requires a transponder and ADS-B and not having it. This would almost certainly get you in trouble quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk View Post
    ...I'm not going to pay more than 5 percent of the value of my airplane for a newfangled new transponder.
    Without being a jerk to you, I think you will if you need it to to fly in the airspace you want to fly in. Folks will bite the bullet if that's where they want to fly. Same thing happened when they required Mode-C - how many planes with transponders DON'T have Mode-C at this point? Champ Driver doesn't need a transponder, so he's immune to all of this, but he's not "not complying" - he is complying by not flying in airspace where either a transponder, Mode-C or ADS-B are required.

    I avoid having to install RVSM equipment in my plane by never flying above 27K ft. :-).

    But my guess is that the prices will come down a bit. I installed a Stratus ESG in a customer's plane a few months ago - it was < $3K, and another 10 hours of labor or so - had to do a bunch of work to the IP to get it to fit in a Long-EZ. So that's $4K total, give or take. I understand that that's a chunk of change, and I'm not happy about needing to spend it, but the airplane will be worth a lot less without it in there, since the next owner will have to spend that $$$ anyway, if he wants to fly in ADS-B airspace. Since you can't do the labor yourself unless your A&P lets you, you may not be able to save the $1K in labor. But maybe the hardware comes down to $2K in the next couple of years, if we're lucky.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Zeitlin View Post
    Be careful how you define "not comply". As long as you don't fly in airspace that requires a transponder or fly an aircraft that needs a transponder today (see Champ Driver's posts), you don't need ADS-B, and you ARE COMPLIANT. It's not being "resistant" if you're not required to have it.

    "Not Complying" would be flying in airspace that requires a transponder and ADS-B and not having it. This would almost certainly get you in trouble quickly.

    Without being a jerk to you, I think you will if you need it to to fly in the airspace you want to fly in. Folks will bite the bullet if that's where they want to fly. Same thing happened when they required Mode-C - how many planes with transponders DON'T have Mode-C at this point? Champ Driver doesn't need a transponder, so he's immune to all of this, but he's not "not complying" - he is complying by not flying in airspace where either a transponder, Mode-C or ADS-B are required.
    Darn it, and I was trying to be a bit of an anarchist.

  9. #29

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    Jun 2012
    Location
    Missouri
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    I installed the NavWorx Transmon gizmo and antennas in my Murphy Super Rebel project, but haven't bought the box yet. Now I have to wait and see what the outcome of the FAA mess is before I proceed. Will be watching the new one from the UK as well.
    Jerry Folkerts

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
    Well ok, but does it really matter what other folks are doing? By now you have a real good feel for the cost, and the limitations/benefits of non-compliance/compliance (which IIRC from the AOPA threads was pretty minimal for you personally). It's OK not to install it for whatever the reason, just as it's OK to install it for whatever reason--it's your plane and your money so you don't need to justify your decision to anyone but yourself.
    1. I think the data is interesting, and I happen to know that it's interesting to others, as well.
    2. I'm secretly hoping that the FAA is reading this and is getting concerned that so few airplane owners are installing ADS-B Out. I'm hoping the FAA can do something about the excessive cost of "certified" ADS-B Out installations and stop being so bureaucratic and certify more solutions and let the free market do it's magic and bring costs down, so that more airplanes have ADS-B Out.

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