Hmmmm...where to park?

[Cary]

The "Dash 10" (Operators manual) describes it as a R172R. Further describes it as a REIMS ROCKET. Six cyl TCM & CS prop. 4th tiedown point aft of the nose wheel. Not really a Skyhawk.

I believe that was the T-41B. The T-41A had an O-300 and a fixed-pitch prop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_T-41_Mescalero

I got a few hours on a T-41A, back as a CAP cadet in the '70s. Don't remember the engine, but it did have a fixed pitch prop.

Ron Wanttaja

My first flights were in a T-41A in Casa Grande, AZ in 1968. I still have my checklist. Engine was a Continental O-300-D, 145 horsepower. Yes, a 76-inch fixed-pitch prop. My very first airplane was a 57 C-172 with the same powerplant.

As Ron notes, the R172 (actually R-172E) was the T-41B. Lots of differences besides the constant speed, 210 HP IO-360D engine. It is really a different airplane -- and was a lot of fun to fly. The T-41A was the same airframe as the C-172 F, G, and H. The only difference was some military instruments and, or course, the paint scheme. T-41Cs were also R-172E's, but with a fixed pitch prop.

From my research, the T-41 versions were all on the same type certificate as the C175, P172D (which I own), R172 (Reims Rocket), 172RG (Cutlass RG), and 172XP--which is not the type certificate of the 172. There are some functional differences between the two type certificates, not just the engines and CS vs. fixed pitch props (or the geared engines on the 175). Incidentally, although none of the T-41s have spinners, they are required equipment on the civilian equivalents.

The higher powered versions don't go much faster than the others, but they climb better and higher. My P172D has a 180hp Lycoming instead of the original 175hp Continental, both with a CS prop. It will go neck and neck with an XP at cruise, although the XP will slightly out climb it. I've had mine to 15,000', the alleged service ceiling, but it's a real strain; 14,000' is more consistently doable except in the hottest weather. An XP's service ceiling is 17,000'.

But in the end, they're all 172s of one sort or another, and they all fly very similarly. None of them are particularly quick; even the quickest (the Cutlass RG) is no speed demon at allegedly 140 knots cruise but from my experience more likely to cruise at under 135 knots. The draggy airframes just don't allow for speed. But they're all pretty pleasant to fly, without any bad habits or "gotchas".

Cary

[Mayhemxpc]

Cary, great information about the C-175 type certificate also covering the T-41B, C, and D. However, the T-41A is the same type certificate for the 172. The FAA Type Certificate for the C-172 (172, and 172 A-S) shows the 172F and the 172H as also being T-41A.

[C 172 Pilot]

With the antiques, with the warbirds, with the homebuilts, or with the ultralights?
Very nice airplane, can a 300# pilot fly it?


Ron "Weeding out some old pictures" Wanttaja

WOW

[Hal Bryan]

WOW

I did a story about that airplane, the Bradley Special, in Sport Aviation in March of 2016.

Updated - see attached .PDF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rwanttaja]

Warbirds or Transports?


Ron Wanttaja

[FlyingRon]

Actually, we had fun with the Snowbirds at Oshkosh this summer. We were drinking with Snowbird 10 (Naughty) and 11 (Sticky) when the were at Dulles. These guys were told that THE Oshkosh experience was to camp with their plane. They were going to do it at least one night. I told them that it's not the same if they were up on the Basler ramp where most of that stuff gets parked. Then it occurred to me that the Tudors they were flying were old enough to park in Vintage. I told them if they wanted to park and camp with us, I'd arrange a prime spot in the Vintage area. They figured they couldn't do it for security reasons.

Well, these guys are pretty crafty and banged on the Airventure staff. So for one night, they tugged Snowbird 10's aircraft down to Vintage and we parked it in front of our operations building. The EAA donated two tents, sleeping bags, air mattresses, chairs, and a cooler of local beer (they are Canadians after all) so they could camp:

Here is a picture of several of us setting up their campsite in Vintage:



Later hanging around at our campsite drinking, Naughty wanted to know about the dots on the runway. After explaining it, he said that flying the Ripon arrival was one of their bucket list items. I told them that we could go out and do it in the Navion. In fact, we got two Navions so both 10 and 11 could go in separate planes. We even rangled an RV for a camera plane.

Here's 10 in my plane forming up on 11 in Trevor Smith's Navion (you'll note that Trevor and his Navion, despite the stars and bars, are Canadian). After letting them fly formation for a while and them teaching us a little formation flight, we let them each do ONE landing at an outlying field and then made them fly the RIPON procedure back to Oshkosh. Naughty's landing was a whole lot better than Sticky's. Naughty missed the dot but landed softly. Sticky slammed Trevor's plane pretty hard into the dot.



I asked them what was left on their Oshkosh bucket list. They said they had already made plans to direct traffic on the runway with the pink shirts but they wanted to drive one of the volkswagons (a bunch of modified VW bugs are assigned to various chairmen on the field). No problem, says I. I run over to the chairman and tell him I'm taking the bug for 20 minutes and we let Sticky and Naughty take turns driving it down the length of Vintage.

Alas, Naughty couldn't reciprocate and take me flying in the Tudor, but they did let us sit in one....

[Floatsflyer]

The Snowbirds Tudor in Vintage camping is one of the most incongruent aviation pics I have ever seen and I love it. Another incongruent pic is the Navion in formation with Navy plus US insignia with a large Canadian registration.

[lnuss]

Neat stuff, Ron. Thanks for sharing that.

[Bob Dingley]

Shoot...now you have got me thinking that a T-41B might be a nice replacement for what I have. (Although Ron could probably convince me that what I am really looking for is a Navion.)

Chris, You wouldn't be happy with a T-41B. See if you can find a USAF U-17B (Cessna 185). The "Ravens" used them, plus a lot of small Airforces. Last but not least, the VNAF flight school used them as primary trainers. VNAF flt school was the adjoining unit at my base at Nha Trang by-the-sea in RVN. They had the standard USAF grey paint with the slightly altered US national star and bar. Air America also used them.
Bob