Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: What ever happened to the idea of 'free flight'?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    7

    What ever happened to the idea of 'free flight'?

    Just as a reminder free flight was an alternative to IFR control proposed a couple of decades ago that would put instrumentation in airplane cockpits allowing them to know where other airplanes are and have the pilots resolve the conflicts themselves without controllers. If I remember right, busy airports would still have controllers and sequencing, but en-route would be up to the pilots involved.

    I'm surprised with the talk once again of privatizing ATC and the deployment of ADS-B that this hasn't been talked about more. A much more limited ATC that was privatized would be a lot less scary than giving a single private organization ownership of the whole sky.

    I can see training issues as well as system issues, particularly given the need for UAT to 1090 repeaters causing difficulty in seeing all traffic close to the surface) But the biggest problem may be resistance to change which seemed like what killed the idea las time.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    1,887
    They decided free flight was too expensive.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    574
    Seems to me the safest and cheapest is a smart computer controlled sequenceing system. It would almost never need any inputs from pilots or controllers. There is only about 5000 aircraft airborne in the whole U.S. at any time. Can't be that complex to automate.
    Majors airports might need to retain a few controllers to monitor. And of course after 2020 pilots will have the ability to "see" traffic instead of talking to busy controllers.

    My local airport is uncontrolled. It would be nice if the local AWOS also worked something like a street stoplight to automatically direct incoming traffic.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    FA40
    Posts
    695
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    ..And of course after 2020 pilots will have the ability to "see" traffic instead of talking to busy controllers...
    Not QUITE true.

    https://generalaviationnews.com/2014...-2020-mandate/

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    1,887
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    Not QUITE true.
    Well......somebody has been doing a heck of a marketing job or people are just not paying attention because most believe that if ADS-B is not installed by the deadline and their plane will be grounded.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    574
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    What's not true?
    Pilots in controlled airspace will need ADS-B out in 2020.
    ADS-B isn't required in class G. But if it was cheap enough (say $500) it could save lives. A C-150 midair took a life just yesterday, I think.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    They decided free flight was too expensive.
    Free flight would require putting a transmitter and a GPS in every plane and a receiver and a display in every IFR plane. Which is exactly the same price as ADS-B out for VFR and ADS-B in/out for IFR.Likely that wast the reason for killing it the first time, but like the head of a hydra it just grew back. Unfortunately without the freedom the original idea would give.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    What's not true?
    A lot of class E space is exempted also. Roughly the 2020 rule is if you need Mode-C, you need ADS-B out, if you don't need Mode-C you still don't need ADS-B out.Which means there is still a need to see and avoid in any system when flying VFR. And all the controllers may be getting is an unreliable primary radar return w/o altitude.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    1,887
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    What's not true?
    Pilots in controlled airspace will need ADS-B out in 2020.
    The FAA statement on their ADS-B homepage is "Starting January 1, 2020, you must be equipped with ADS-B Out to fly in most controlled airspace." [emphasis mine]

    I think they are exaggerating the "most" part by including already positive control airspace above FL180 and the little-used-by-GA 10k to FL180 airspace. Below 10k, most controlled airspace (by volume) will not require ADS-B

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    574
    Yes, there are exceptions, such as gliders and balloons and no electric system.
    But my experience with close near midairs were all in rural class G airspace because that's where I fly.
    It seems to me eventually the majority of flying owners would want to install an affordable ADS-B for use in class G even if not required.
    Much like most small airplanes are equipped with radios for CTAF for use at uncontrolled fields even though a radio isn't required.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •