Reovery in Aviation Activity

[martymayes]

STILL way cheaper than owning an airplane.

Which is why there needs to be more rental, flying club and other joint ownership options. If I want to rent a plane it's a lot of work. My local airport has NO rentals and probably the closest is an hrs drive. Compared that to the late '70's -- I flew often because there were rental planes everywhere. Overnight trip? No problem and no daily minimum. There were too many options to penalize people for that. Something to be said for flying a couple hrs, dropping a $200 bill on the counter and walking away.

Owning is expensive and not realistic for a lot of people but renting or clubbing open up a lot of options.

EAA is sitting on a volcano of potential growth if they would allow chapters to operate flying clubs and it's ridiculous not to acknowledge this.

[1600vw]

Which is why there needs to be more rental, flying club and other joint ownership options. If I want to rent a plane it's a lot of work. My local airport has NO rentals and probably the closest is an hrs drive. Compared that to the late '70's -- I flew often because there were rental planes everywhere. Overnight trip? No problem and no daily minimum. There were too many options to penalize people for that. Something to be said for flying a couple hrs, dropping a $200 bill on the counter and walking away.

Owning is expensive and not realistic for a lot of people but renting or clubbing open up a lot of options.

EAA is sitting on a volcano of potential growth if they would allow chapters to operate flying clubs and it's ridiculous not to acknowledge this.

There are many area's the EAA is dropping the ball. Today one needs to think outside the box to get the younger generation interested. But getting them interested is not enough. You must then hold their interest.

[L16 Pilot]

On another note: owning a boat is expensive too but unless you happen to keep it a slip you can hook it on to your pickup, haul it home and stick it in a shed if you happen to have one or your garage or cover it up outside. Plus, you can do as much maintenance as you are comfortable with doing and no annual inspection. After rebuilding several tube and fabric aircraft (usually at a loss but it keeps me busy) I've often thought about building something like an RV but the dollar outlay is out of sight.

[1600vw]

On another note: owning a boat is expensive too but unless you happen to keep it a slip you can hook it on to your pickup, haul it home and stick it in a shed if you happen to have one or your garage or cover it up outside. Plus, you can do as much maintenance as you are comfortable with doing and no annual inspection. After rebuilding several tube and fabric aircraft (usually at a loss but it keeps me busy) I've often thought about building something like an RV but the dollar outlay is out of sight.

One could argue it cost a lot to own anything. My auto cost a lot in upkeep. My Home cost a lot in upkeep. Owning anything is expensive. Its a priority thing. Very good example. Last year we had an older gent who had a J3 cub look-a-like he just purchased. I was helping this man work on this airplane. This man would not put 100 bucks into that airplane. If I mentioned something needed replaced he would take anything he could find and try to fix said whatever it was. He then spends 20 bucks and buys a boat and trailer. This boat was sitting in a tree line for over 30 years. The very first thing this man does is spend 100 bucks replacing tires and wheels. I walked away from this man and would not lift one more finger working on his airplane. He sold the airplane. I was so happy he sold the airplane and went away.

But none of this has a hill of beans to do with the recovery of aviation or the lack there of. But nice way of diverting the conversation away from the EAA dropping the ball. How does that saying go.......It's a fool who keeps doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome....

Times are a changing. The EAA needs to change with the times.

Tony

[DaleB]

But none of this has a hill of beans to do with the recovery of aviation or the lack there of. But nice way of diverting the conversation away from the EAA dropping the ball. How does that saying go.......It's a fool who keeps doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome....

Times are a changing. The EAA needs to change with the times.

I'm not clear on why you seem to have come to the conclusion that the decline in GA is in any way the fault of EAA. I would say that a good deal of the activity at our local airport is because of EAA and EAA members. At least one other close by is the same.

Last summer we had one event that brought a couple thousand people to our airport, and over 500 took rides on one of the Tri-Motors. Lots of publicity and lots of people seeing that airport close up for the first time. We also flew a couple hundred Young Eagles, and got their parents exposed to general aviation and EAA as well. None of that would have happened without EAA.

EAA is certainly not perfect. No organization that large will be, but the organization is shaped by the people who are willing to go out of their way and put forth the time and effort to shape it. The ones who aren't willing to invest that time and effort (and yes, money too) effectively let others set the direction. The flying club thing is an example. If you want EAA to allow chapters to operate flying clubs, all you have to do is gather enough support to get EAA to change their policy. If the current directors and management won't, replace them with people who will. If you can't get enough support to do that, then it could be argued that the organization is operating according to the wants and needs of the members (as it should).

[1600vw]

I'm not clear on why you seem to have come to the conclusion that the decline in GA is in any way the fault of EAA. I would say that a good deal of the activity at our local airport is because of EAA and EAA members. At least one other close by is the same.

Last summer we had one event that brought a couple thousand people to our airport, and over 500 took rides on one of the Tri-Motors. Lots of publicity and lots of people seeing that airport close up for the first time. We also flew a couple hundred Young Eagles, and got their parents exposed to general aviation and EAA as well. None of that would have happened without EAA.

EAA is certainly not perfect. No organization that large will be, but the organization is shaped by the people who are willing to go out of their way and put forth the time and effort to shape it. The ones who aren't willing to invest that time and effort (and yes, money too) effectively let others set the direction. The flying club thing is an example. If you want EAA to allow chapters to operate flying clubs, all you have to do is gather enough support to get EAA to change their policy. If the current directors and management won't, replace them with people who will. If you can't get enough support to do that, then it could be argued that the organization is operating according to the wants and needs of the members (as it should).

I love it when people put words in ones mouth. Not once did I say the EAA was responsible for the decline in aviation. Not once. The point I was making and what I said was the EAA could do more today to promote aviation to the younger generation. The generation we are looking at to take over activities such as this in the future when we are all gone and forgotten.

[raytoews]

Be careful what you wish for. The truth is flying a real airplane will never be a mainstream sport. It's dangerous it takes a relatively high commitment it's expensive,, well depending on how you do it.
Having said that there is always a good segment of people who have a strong desire to fly.
That group predominately does not include young people.
For the above stated reasons it attracts those of us who have made a little money, aren't bulletproof anymore.
In canada we don't seem to spend the time stressing about the declining numbers, they probably are but the biggest thing I see is the govt is much farther away.
Sure we have regulations but I don't know any Canadian pilot who can quote chapter and verse of the aim or the cars.
The other thing you can do is tear down the damn fences. I spend winters in southern California and I can tell you it is hard to get near most airports.
Our ultralight regs are less onerous than yours and many are ignored. Thanks to the last govt and lots of retirements TC has no time to pay much attention. The main thing is don't hurt an innocent. And we have OM. That has made a big difference in keeping the old birds in the air.
Stop fighting to keep the air space away from the airlines. They don't give a damn about 99% of it. The part most of us use. In exchange get the govt off your backs.
That all I have to say about that.

[Mayhemxpc]

This has been a very interesting thread. It has wandered one way and another, but I think that there has been a general theme. So here are my contributions.
1: The original thread...Where I am I think that there has been a slow but steady increase in activity. I fly out of Manassas (HEF) which is a towered airport at the edge of the SFRA. There are three or four flight schools that are all very active. The busiest one seems to be the helicopter flight school. On a good weather day, I can waste a lot of time at the hold short line waiting for permission to launch because of the traffic.
2: That said, at 59 years old, I still find that I am well below the median age of the pilots I encounter. That is a scary thought. Our EAA YE program is very active and flies several hundred kids a year. Many of them are repeat attendees, which is great as it means we are keeping the interest up. We also have a very active CAP program, with at least 50 to 60 cadets on a given evening and lots of activity. Nonetheless, aviation is a VERY expensive hobby. CAP recently asked if I was willing to fly my plane on CAP missions and what my pro-rated costs would be. I figured it out, was momentarily depressed, and then promptly made the effort to forget that number. I don't know what we can do to address that. I used to be the ops officer for an Army Flying Club. This was a great way to make flying affordable for younger soldiers (especially enlisted.) Morale Welfare and Recreation disagreed and started demanding overhead and administrative fees that shut down the activity.
3. Choppergirl. There is one thing that simulators don't do that is absolutely critical to learning about flying: The possibility of serious injury and death -- or at least breaking something VERY expensive. I used to teach CAP cadets during our national flight encampments (I just don't have the time anymore, otherwise I would still do it.) Most of the boys came to me as microsoft flight simulator aces. Their major challenge was UN-learning everything they thought they knew. Most of them were able to admit to themselves that they didn't really know how to fly about hour 4. Then learning can begin. The girls were better as they didn't come in thinking that they had to show me that they already knew how to fly.
4. Absolutely agree that we need to make airports more accessible. EAA YE programs are a great start. So many people still think that airports, flying, and even pilots are unaccessible. Here around Manassas we have several airshows or other events (including Air and Space Museum's Innovations in flight: call out to FlyingRon) that bring in LOTS of young people. HEF has an observation area open to the public with picnic benches, which is another nice start. The interest is there, but I thinks more can be done to get the information out.
5. Back to CAP: One of the ways we get and keep interest is that aircrew does not just mean pilots. Observers, scanners, and aerial photographers do not have to be pilots and most are not. However, they get to participate in flying, learn more about it, and maybe move towards becoming a pilot -- if that interests them. (And it means I have someone else to manage that @#$% Garmin MFD!)

Already an overly long post, but, to sum up: Things are getting better, but slowly. We have to reach out to the young, after all that is our future. There is no one solution, we need to figure how how to maximize the different possibilities exist to address the problem.

[1600vw]

Look at the FAA registry. There are over 100,000 new pilots in the forum of drone pilots. But you do not see any of these new pilots at EAA or very very few.

Then lets look at this cost of ownership. I was always under the impression that aviation was for the rich. I am not rich. I never had any idea about the lower end of aviation. Everyone said it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to fly. This is a myth and one of the biggest killers of aviation. We have an RC club here at my field, I spoke at one of the meetings about experimental airplanes and the cost. I told this group that 60% of them had more money in their rc gear and airplanes then I have in my experimental airplane. I heard people say that I had no idea what I was saying. If one wants to fly a p-51 or a 172 or how about a 747, now those cost a lot to own and operate. But a single seat eab is not that expensive to own and operate. This is one of the biggest turn-off to aviation. The next time someone asks about the cost of aviation don't just say, its expensive. Explain like anything else there is the low cost side of things. Not all airplanes cost tens of thousand of dollars. Some don't even cost 5 thousand dollars.

But to say we have the YE program, we have Oshkosh and we have this and that. Well like the saying goes...Its the fool who keeps doing the same thing and expects different results.

IMHO we need to draw in the younger crowd or drone pilots and IMHO this could be done by offering a simulation area on the EAA website. Make it training oriented or competition oriented. You would find thousands of people visiting EAA site. If just 1% of these people became involved in aviation because of it everyone in aviation is ahead.

But to do nothing but what has been done for the past how many years. Well as the saying goes.....But please the next time speaking to newbies about aviation, don't make out like one needs to own gold to fly. It's just false info being spread. There are ways to get this cost down. Unless you are just dead set on owning and flying a P-51. That will cost you and cost you a lot.

Tony

[DaleB]

I love it when people put words in ones mouth. Not once did I say the EAA was responsible for the decline in aviation. Not once. The point I was making and what I said was the EAA could do more today to promote aviation to the younger generation. The generation we are looking at to take over activities such as this in the future when we are all gone and forgotten.

Maybe I misunderstood when you said EAA is "dropping the ball". I'm not trying to argue, friend, Just asking a simple question. No need to cop an attitude.