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Thread: Advice needed - XC Flight from Chicago to Sacramento

  1. #1
    Glenn Gordon's Avatar
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    Advice needed - XC Flight from Chicago to Sacramento

    Hello,I'm hoping to get some route/flying advice for a late June VFR cross country from Chicago to Sacramento. The airplane, a Marquart MA-5 Charger, is a 150hp normally aspirated two seat open cockpit biplane. I have several hundred hours in the airplane but it has been pretty much limited to low density altitude airports.Me... 46 years old, Comm, SEL, MEL, Inst, Glider with around 1400 hrs.Any help, advice, wisdom, or other useful information is appreciated.Thanks,Glenn

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    lnuss's Avatar
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    It's good that you're aware that density altitude might affect you. I don't know the normal power settings for your aircraft, but in a C-172, if you set takeoff power to 2250 RPM instead of the normal full throttle (better have a long runway), you'll get some taste of the effect of density altitude, though it won't be complete. Another analogy is that a C-182, on a warm day at 5,000 ft., will accelerate, take off and climb much like a C-172 at sea level.

    But the big rocks sticking up will have some potentially dangerous effects, as well, and some mountain flying instruction would be very beneficial. Failing that, keep in mind that when winds aloft get up in the 20 kts plus range, it's usually best to stay out of the mountains, due not only to turbulence, but to up and down drafts, often exceeding the performance capabilities of your aircraft. Even in lower wind conditions, approach most any ridge with at least a couple of thousand feet of extra altitude, and at roughly a 45º angle, allowing you to turn away from that ridge more quickly if you hit sudden sink. And if visibility is under 20-30 miles, you may wish to not go, as visibility out here in the mountain west is normally in excess of 60 miles, and often over 100 miles, so lower vis could mean weather moving in. And if you see lenticular clouds, that's a sign of strong winds aloft and often some rather severe turbulence under them, in the form of rotors -- there may be rotor clouds, but not always. And note that it's a lot smoother flying, generally, in the morning hours before 10 or 11. After that you'll often get thermals that bounce you around a lot.

    Finally, I'd strongly suggest that you talk to local folks at whatever airport you land at, asking for advice about anything in their area that might be a problem. But if you can, get some mountain flying training, also, as you'll learn a LOT. I've just scratched the surface here, and other may have some tidbits to add, but do at least get local advice as you progress through the areas. Hazards aren't necessarily the same everywhere.

    Larry N.

  3. #3
    Glenn Gordon's Avatar
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    Inuss,Thank you for the reply. I found several route suggestions that I'll be considering. I'm also thinking about closing up the front cockpit since I'll likely be solo on this trip.-Glenn

  4. #4

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    150 hp should be adequate., I used to fly a small biplane, Rose Parakeet from a 8000 ft elevation airport, with 150 hp, obvoilsy your Charger is larger and somewhat heavier. Go out one day and try your plane, climb up to the service ceiling or up to 15,000 or so and see what it does. Generally, especialy in June, flying is nicer early in the day, less wind and turbulence. Most of your trip is not going to be over mountains. For real mt flying, go when the weather is good or dont go, And there are usually lower routes, through passes, valleys and over highways instead of directly over 14,000 ft peaks. Remember airports and fuel will be farther apart as you go west. If you are going to spend much of your time cruising above 10,500 it really is good to have portable oxygen and legally required for cruise above 12,000. I woudnt want to fudge it much, over 15,000 can put one to sleep.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 02-11-2017 at 01:29 PM.

  5. #5

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    I will speak up since I have flown that route in an under-powered antique airplane.

    In June density altitude will be less of a worry than July and August.

    Fly I-80. Makes navigation easy, all of the runways across southern Wyoming are 6000-7000' long, and if you have a problem, mechanical or weather, you can land on the highway and flag down help. Towns across Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada are relatively far apart so following the highway in unfamiliar territory improves the comfort factor. I-80 also crosses the Wasatch into Utah at a relatively low point. If you try to cross farther north you will need to stagger up to a higher altitude.

    When you go into one of the airports on the route, circle once overhead and look at the hills around your takeoff route. When flying at higher field elevations and density altitudes you will want to remember where the valleys go so that if your climb rate is less than you are used to, you can follow the best valley.

    The operating procedure that most lowlanders have the most trouble with is leaning on takeoff. At 6000' field elevation you can't hurt the engine by over-leaning for takeoff but you can give yourself poor performance by taking off with the mixture control all of the way in. And don't rush the takeoffs. The runways are long so let the airplane accellerate and don't force or rush things.

    There are likely to still be some snow caps on the front range in early June. Really pretty.

    The Sierra Nevada are actually pretty narrow. If you go south of I-80 to Carson City or Minden Nevada for fuel, you will find that you will have to circle for 45 minutes to get high enough for the 45 minute trip across the Sierra and Lake Tahoe. Watch the sailplanes to find the lift and avoid the sink. Another very pretty hop.

    A great trip across some alternately beautiful and desolate country.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78041

  6. #6
    Glenn Gordon's Avatar
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    Thanks again for all the input. Sound like I've got a flight to get busy planning out the details on -Glenn

  7. #7

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    I learned to fly at 5042 ft with 8000ft mountains in the vicinity. There were a few rules of thumb:
    1. lean for taxi to avoid fouling plugs
    2. Lean for takeoff to get full power
    3. Vy increases and ROC decreases at higher density altitude - check your POH (cessna climb performance tables are an excellent example)
    4. Fill gas tanks in the evening or early morning as heat causes fuel to expand/vaporize and exit thru vents.
    5. Depart early morning while the density altitude and winds are low.
    6. Follow the interstates and major roads as these are near civilization and built thru the easiest land route
    7. Use flight following

  8. #8

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    "....you can land on the highway and flag down help..."

    With a Marquart MA5's 24' span, that should work fine most places on an interstate highway out west. In many states it's not even against the law. In some, it probably is. Don't show your driver's license or you may get a moving violation on your driver's record. Show
    some other photo ID and your pilot certificate. Be aware of road signs. Be aware of possible wires across the road, because even though low individual wires are less likely there than on other roads, well, be aware of wires. Landing with traffic is usually preferable to against traffic. Be aware the car you land behind may jam on brakes for a panic stop when you appear in the rear-view mirror. If you can choose, land near an exit ramp. There, that's all the stuff I've learned. Others probably know more. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #9

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    The video of the T-6 a few years back forced landing in heavy traffic on freeway just off Fon du Lac airport is amazing, just missed a cop car and no one injured, damaged the wing somewhat.

  10. #10

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    The man who owns this made the same trip in this. He told me that when he asked for flight following ATC asked...You are how high and flying what again?..lol He said or told me he said....9000' in a gyro. ATC asked why so high, he said to stay out of the heat, This was the summer of 2012 I do believe. He said ATC never said another word about it...lol

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