ATC privatization

[1600vw]

From what Annette told me, at one time the state of Illinois gave out stickers when you paid this fee. This sticker had to be put on the windshield of your airplane. Now she said they do not do this, you just pay this fee. I am sure others on this forum who live in Illinois can give more detail about this user tax. From my understanding or from what Annette said, this tax is only charged to those who live in the state of Illinois. I flew into a small fly-in and purchased one gallon of fuel. I had to enter an N number to purchase this fuel. These records are then given to the state. The State then goes over every transaction and make sure all taxes have been paid by all N numbers entered. Annette explained this to me on how she came to have my info in her hand. She said I did not pay my 20 dollar use tax for this airplane. I believe I kept these e-mails. I will post some of these e-mails if I did indeed safe them.

I should mention that this happened about one year ago.

Tony

[rwanttaja]

From what Annette told me, at one time the state of Illinois gave out stickers when you paid this fee. This sticker had to be put on the windshield of your airplane. Now she said they do not do this, you just pay this fee. I am sure others on this forum who live in Illinois can give more detail about this user tax. From my understanding or from what Annette said, this tax is only charged to those who live in the state of Illinois. I flew into a small fly-in and purchased one gallon of fuel. I had to enter an N number to purchase this fuel. These records are then given to the state. The State then goes over every transaction and make sure all taxes have been paid by all N numbers entered. Annette explained this to me on how she came to have my info in her hand. She said I did not pay my 20 dollar use tax for this airplane. I believe I kept these e-mails. I will post some of these e-mails if I did indeed safe them.

This is similar to Washington state, though some of the terms are used differently. For as long as I've been flying here, Washington has annual registration fees which "go directly to support...Aviation’s airport preservation, maintenance and improvement programs, education outreach, and air search and rescue operations." The actual fee starts at $35/year for homebuilts, balloons, and sailplanes, jumps to $65 for production-type single-engine aircraft, with a maximum of $140/year for turbojets. You can have your plane in-state for up to 90 days a year before the fees are expected to be paid.

Like Tony's case, we used to receive a sticker for the airplane, but they quit that several years back. In the past, State Police would occasionally canvass airports to find airplanes without the stickers. Suspect they just enter N-Numbers into a computer, now. If you are liable for the fee and don't pay, the fine is up to $400.

All of the local self-service avgas pumps require entry of an N-Number, but, shoot, the guy who owns "N12345" probably owes a lot of taxes.

Washington State also has a "Use Tax" for aircraft owners, but it's different from the one Tony mentions. To register a new or recently-purchased airplane in Washington State, you have to pay the equivalent in sales tax. Can be directly as sales tax, in the case of a commercial sale, otherwise, it's based on the value of the aircraft. Fun n' games with a homebuilt, of course, because there are no price guides for the tax people to use to check the declared value. Known guys who have had to sit in a chair in the tax office and answer a series of questions like, "Is it like a Cessna 175? Is it like a Cessna 177? Is it like a Cessna 180?..."

Aircraft Builders do get a break in that any sales tax on materials purchased in-state can be deducted from the use tax. Just hope they never look as to why you needed $2,000 worth of sheet rock for your Pietenpol.... :-)

Ron Wanttaja

[MEdwards]

This was discussed at length on the AOPA board in December. One guy had the gall to derail the misinformation by actually looking up the Illinois law. It is a registration requirement and it exempts non-residents of the state. From a post of that discussion:

(620 ILCS 5/44) (from Ch. 15 1/2, par. 22.44)
Sec. 44. Exceptions to registration requirements.) The provisions of paragraph (1) of Section 42 and Section 43 shall not apply to:
(1) An aircraft which has been licensed by a foreign country with which the United States has a reciprocal agreement covering the operations of such licensed aircraft;
(2) An aircraft which is owned by a nonresident of the State who is lawfully entitled to operate such aircraft in the state of his residence;
(3) An aircraft engaged principally in commercial flying constituting an act of interstate or foreign commerce, and an aircraft while being transported to and from, or while in the possession of, or while being demonstrated to a bona fide prospective purchaser by a bona fide manufacturer, distributor or dealer in aircraft;
(4) An airman operating military or public aircraft, or any aircraft licensed by a foreign county with which the United States has a reciprocal agreement covering the operation of such licensed aircraft;
(5) Persons operating model aircraft nor to any person piloting an aircraft which is equipped with fully functioning dual controls when an instructor is in full charge of one set of controls and such flight is solely for instruction or for the demonstration of the aircraft to a bona fide prospective purchaser;
(6) A non-resident operating aircraft in this State who is lawfully entitled to operate aircraft in the state of his residence;
(7) An airman while operating or taking part in the operation of an aircraft engaged principally in commercial flying constituting an act of interstate or foreign commerce;
(8) An aircraft registered and regulated by the Illinois Aeronautics Board.
(Source: P.A. 79-333.)

[Mayhemxpc]

Yes, t sounds like "Annette" was confused between the registration fee for aircraft based in IL and an "airspace" user fee. VA also has a registration fee, under much the same provisions as IL, but I think ours is $5. You get a sticker, which is supposed to go on the airplane near the horizontal stabilizer. The advantage to doing this s that when police do ramp checks they can see that the plane is registered in another state and you won't get questioned. Using fuel entries probably won't help there. Antique and Warbirds with historical paint are exempt from displaying the sticker. In that case it has to be kept with the registration. When I was stationed in Kentucky on active duty, my home of record was IL. I used that (legally) to keep the plane registered in IL. $20 fee for IL was a lot better than paying the ANNUAL "movable property" tax in KY.

[martymayes]

Yes, t sounds like "Annette" was confused.

Yup

[1600vw]

My wife reminded me that this came snail mail.

[Floatsflyer]

Can any of you north of the border tell us what privatization would mean to us down here in the lower 48 as to cost, inconvenience and so on. Having read some comments posted elsewhere it's not a rosy picture and something to be avoided.

Cheers, Hans

I can only provide you with my experience with the privatization of Canada's air navigation system by Nav Canada. That experience is a big fat zero directly or non-directly. Nav Canada has had zero impact on me positively or negatively in the 20 years it has owned and operated Canada's air navigation system. My communications with ATC and FSS remain as they had prior to 1996. My direct aviation dealings are still only with DOT for licensing(aircraft and personnel)and medicals. My recollection is that the transfer from government to private sector operation was quite seemless for GA. I'm assuming the payment of $70 by rv8bldr is for the CFS publication yearly subscription. I no longer pay that since I subscribe to Foreflight which of course has it's own cost. I have never paid any other money to Nav Canada.

What you need to know is that Nav Canada is run as a not-for-profit private corporation. It's financed by publicly traded debt and the money it charges aircraft operators and carriers. As a not-for-profit it offers no shares and has no shareholders. The corporate structure is a BOD repped by the 4 stakeholder groups that originally created it--air carriers; GA and BA; federal government; and unions- and bought it from the Canadian government.

Based on US corporate history-take overs and otherwise-if the FAA is privatized, a giant publicly traded conglomerate or investment banker(US or not) will buy it for mega zillions and it will NOT likely be run as a not-for-profit. If such a purchase was to occur, it will be far more malevolent and IMO, you as private pilots and air carrier passengers will pay a huge price for it in the name of creating value for the stockholders. No matter your opinion of the FAA, you should probably all hope privatization doesn't happen.

[saber25]

Thanks Floatsflyer for that response. I received an answer from a New Zealander on another forum and he is paying a tidy sum for the freedom to fly. If the eventual path here is towards privatization and additional user fees, I'm sure the ADS-B Nextgen mandate will go a long way in providing a seamless path for collection of fees. Maybe I'm overthinking this but fear that the free in freedom will be replaced by another kingdom.

[mmarien]

I agree with rv8bldr. I register the number of hours I fly each year for each plane and get charged a fee. I think it's $70 per plane. Couldn't be simpler.

[JohnSBA]

If the eventual path here is towards privatization and additional user fees

That is highly likely, imo. At least the FAA is accountable and (glacially) responsive to citizens unlike our telco, internet, broadcast and other mega-corporations (and they have some semblance of competition). From my own occasional flying in Canada, I find the costs and services there to be much higher. I much prefer FAA charts, the fact I can fly VFR without flight plan (required, and charged for even though no or minimal services are provided, when I fly in Canada), and the absence of FAA fees for most services like the freedom provided by Flight Following. After a flight to Canada, I routinely get bills for several months on assorted things like landings, parking, and ATC. All this from the relatively well-implemented non-profit in Canada, a much smaller country with less GA. Speaking of the charts, the excellent free open source Avare aviation GPS app and several others use free FAA charts, which are only available (at hefty fees) to one or two companies from NavCanada. Please join EAA & AOPA and do all you can to resist privatization of the FAA!