ATC privatization

[martymayes]

Might be a good dea to wait and see what's proposed becore jumping on the "anti" bandwagon

[rwanttaja]

Might be a good dea to wait and see what's proposed becore jumping on the "anti" bandwagon

But...but...that's un-American! :-)

Ron "I'm agin' it....nah, I'm fer it" Wanttaja

[martymayes]

I know....we need to pass this law so we can find out what's in it!

[mmarien]

From my own occasional flying in Canada, I find the costs and services there to be much higher. I much prefer FAA charts, the fact I can fly VFR without flight plan (required, and charged for even though no or minimal services are provided, when I fly in Canada), and the absence of FAA fees for most services like the freedom provided by Flight Following. After a flight to Canada, I routinely get bills for several months on assorted things like landings, parking, and ATC. All this from the relatively well-implemented non-profit in Canada, a much smaller country with less GA. Speaking of the charts, the excellent free open source Avare aviation GPS app and several others use free FAA charts, which are only available (at hefty fees) to one or two companies from NavCanada. Please join EAA & AOPA and do all you can to resist privatization of the FAA!

I feel for your expensive experience crossing into Canadian Airspace. To keep the misinformation to a minimum, flight plans are required both ways across the border. There is no charge for flight plans. I cross the border a few times a year to visit my brother in Georgia and file a flight plan every time I cross the border. Never get charged either way. In addition to a flight plan, I have to register my passenger manifest with eAPIS, obtain a US xponder code, purchase a DTOPS decal, and contact CBP to request permission to land prior to flying to the US. Coming back to Canada they just ask me to contact Canadian Customs. No requesting permission, filing manifests, etc. It seems that there is a lot more freedom going one way than the other. Check the AOPA border crossing guide. I have nearly a thousand VFR flights over the past few years. From the Atlantic to the Pacific in both Canada and the US. I can't remember filing a flight plan in either country other than to cross the border. In the US I pay parking fees just like here in Canada depending on the FBO I park at. There are a few larger Canadian airports that charge GA landing fees. You can avoid them with proper flight planning. In the US they just tell me to stay out of their BRAVO airspace. I've been offered flight following in Canada as well as the US. We don't call it flight following but ATC will offer their services or request that we stay on their frequency when traffic dictates it. I use ForeFlight. It has both Canadian VNC charts and US VFR sectionals plus all the other good stuff. Same price for either. Twice the price for both. The Canadian charts aren't quite as colorful as the US sectionals but I like them both. As far as freedom (money wise) to fly, I can't imagine the taxes it takes to keep FAA afloat. Every President since Regan has been trying to dump FAA. Here in Canada I pay a $68 yearly fee to use NAV Canada's services. If you have been charged a fee to fly in Canadian airspace I thank you for helping keeping NAV Canada afloat. Just so you know, it's a non profit corporation, so you probably haven't been over charged. Here is a guide to the fees you have been charged: http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Pub...Charges-EN.pdf

[Floatsflyer]

I feel for your expensive experience crossing into Canadian Airspace. To keep the misinformation to a minimum, flight plans are required both ways across the border. There is no charge for flight plans. I cross the border a few times a year to visit my brother in Georgia and file a flight plan every time I cross the border. Never get charged either way. In addition to a flight plan, I have to register my passenger manifest with eAPIS, obtain a US xponder code, purchase a DTOPS decal, and contact CBP to request permission to land prior to flying to the US. Coming back to Canada they just ask me to contact Canadian Customs. No requesting permission, filing manifests, etc. It seems that there is a lot more freedom going one way than the other. Check the AOPA border crossing guide. I have nearly a thousand VFR flights over the past few years. From the Atlantic to the Pacific in both Canada and the US. I can't remember filing a flight plan in either country other than to cross the border. In the US I pay parking fees just like here in Canada depending on the FBO I park at. There are a few larger Canadian airports that charge GA landing fees. You can avoid them with proper flight planning. In the US they just tell me to stay out of their BRAVO airspace. I've been offered flight following in Canada as well as the US. We don't call it flight following but ATC will offer their services or request that we stay on their frequency when traffic dictates it. I use ForeFlight. It has both Canadian VNC charts and US VFR sectionals plus all the other good stuff. Same price for either. Twice the price for both. The Canadian charts aren't quite as colorful as the US sectionals but I like them both. As far as freedom (money wise) to fly, I can't imagine the taxes it takes to keep FAA afloat. Every President since Regan has been trying to dump FAA. Here in Canada I pay a $68 yearly fee to use NAV Canada's services. If you have been charged a fee to fly in Canadian airspace I thank you for helping keeping NAV Canada afloat. Just so you know, it's a non profit corporation, so you probably haven't been over charged. Here is a guide to the fees you have been charged: http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Pub...Charges-EN.pdf

Bravo, Bravo! to you mmarien regarding John SBA post. Seems that AFD(Alternative Facts Disorder) has crept into GA for some. Why? What's the point? Disinformation in flying can be treacherous and deadly. We don't need any fart catchers here.

As a fellow Canadian border crosser, flying into the US is far more onerous, complex, time consuming and freedom reducing than flying into Canada. If you still don't believe that, meet me at a pre-determined place at Oshkosh and I'll show you all the paperwork. I'll also show you a video of customs officers doing a walk-a-round of the airplane with a yellow handheld gigercounter.

[WLIU]

The management of the border crossings by US Customs is completely unrelated to anything to do with ATC. The Canada airport of entry have been more welcoming for years and years. The US side has always been something of a pain, although it has actually gotten better.

ATC funding - We already pay fuel taxes. ATC already has a funding stream. The problem is that the FAA is tired of begging our legislators for their budget and the legislators would like to keep the fuel taxes to spend on other programs. Changing the income stream to add fees for ATC just makes the costs of aviating go up. If you think that the fuel taxes will go down as part of offsetting the new fees I have some swampy land in central Florida to sell you. The ATC privatization does not pass the cost-benefit test for GA.

Some folks might remember the recent political battles over US healthcare. The "penalty" for not buying the mandatory healthcare was ruled a tax by the US Supreme Court. Private ATC is the same thing - a new tax.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS (formerly C-GTBE)

[raytoews]

Some yrs ago I flew into Bonneville airport and they started sending me bills for landing. I bought $100 worth of gas.
A yr or so later I was in a meeting with the mayor and commented, I drove thru town last yr on my motorcycle and bought $6 worth of gas. When I landed at your airport you charge me for using the Facility?
They stopped sending the bill.
I have never paid a landing fee and never will. As a private operator I never will.
They can kiss my spinner.

[raytoews]

I pay the same fee for my Cheetah. I thought it was $45 but I probably went up.
I don't pay it for my Zenair. Ultralight don't have to pay. Apparently we don't talk on the radio as much or file flight plans. Same air though.
What the hell do I pay taxes for?