Airlines Now

[L16 Pilot]

I can personally attest to sitting on the ground in (I believe) in Abilene, Texas having be diverted from DWF for bad weather. We left MSP on AA about 9:30 am but the weather must have developed while we were enroute, thus the diversion for fuel to Abilene. I think we got into DFW about 3:00 pm. We were not allowed to deplane but they did bring pizza and water so they tried to treat us right. Personally in regard to bad weather I'd rather they opt on the side of caution. I've had enough of rough rides over the years.

[Bill Greenwood]

Marty, two facts: Before the rule went into effect with possible fines of $25,000 per passenger for holding them on the tarmac for over 3 hours, the airlines didnt give much concern to passenger comfort or well being. Holding passengers, not just for 3 hours, but sometimes over 8 happened a number of times. The airlines put so much effort into blaming the weather etc, but not much into improving service.
Then came the rule with the $25,000 fines and that is per passenger. Suddenly and almost overnight the airlines found a way to plan better, to avoid fines of perhaps $4 milllion per flight. Nowadays it is rare to hold passengers hostage for hours. It is a shame that it took the threat of fines to force the airlines to do what they should have all along.
As for as an airilne going out of business, they dont get paid for flgiths that dont fly. If they take a plane full of passengers and sit on the tarmac for 8 hours, they owe another flight or a refund. Sitting out there didnt make the airline any money. just gave them a bad name.
We have always had weather problems that can affect flights, but you didint have these hostage situations untill fairly recent years, maybe due to airlines bunching at hubs, or taking advantage of calling a departure, "on time" just by taxi out time.
And the rule doesnt require the airlines to cancel any flight, If weather is bad or other delays, just let the passengers wait in the terminal where there is more comfort and choice, the rule only addresses holding them hostage inside the airplane.

[FlyingRon]

Actually, we've had some pretty good bus experiences of late. I lived out near Dulles Airport and visit NYC (got relatives there) periodically. We've got a bus that runs from a park and ride not too far from my house to NYC cheaper than I could think about even parking my car at the airport. Sit on a clean, comfortable bus with WIFI even and cool it for a few hours and I'm dropped off in Time Square. Certainly beats the commercial airlines time wise and I can't even get even do as well GA wise. The train wouldn't be bad, but I still have to get downtown in DC (parking is expensive and you can't leave the car at the Metro stations for an extended period).

[Bill Greenwood]

Chris Mayer, the pilot may not intend to deceive passengers, but he may not really know how long a delay will be, and he may not be the one to decide, rather it is dispatch or ATC, etc.
But the pilot is likely to try to put the best face on a situation.
When you went to Genva, did the pilot say. "Welcome folks, lets hurry up and board so that we can taxi out and sit for 3 hours" Not likley.
And origianlly this rule treated overseas fligthts differently, not sure about now..

[Floatsflyer]

Swiss Air had a triple seven land at a remote Canadian airstrip last night and kept passengers on board for 12 hrs. Is this a planning failure? .

No, it was an engine failure according to the reports I've read.

I would not like to be held on board a plane on the ground for 12 hours, that's mentally and physically torturous and inhumane treatment. Probably no food, not much to drink, bad air quality and the washrooms are backing up, inoperative and odious. Although Customs and Immigration is the reason for it( the plane was enroute to LA)surely common sense could have prevailed and an area of an airport building or heated hangar could have been used to deplane and house the passengers in a makeshift secure area. Swissair could then bring in food and drink and washroom facilities(permanent and portable) made available.

It's 2017. Despite our amazing technological advances, humanity's lack of proper, critical thinking and humane behaviour is truly astounding.

[martymayes]

Let's compare two industries:

Medical industry: Responsible for 300,000 deaths per yr. Break it down and 1/3 of those deaths, or about 100,000 are due to ingesting toxic drugs. Not drug abuse but medication taken exactly as prescribed by a Dr. ( I wonder if they even say oopsie?) Another 7000 die due to drug mixups. Oopsie. 22,000 die due to medical errors and mistakes. Oopsie again. This is not some freak event or catastrophe, it's business as usual in the medical industry.

Airline industry: Conducts 1000's of flights per day and over the course of a year transports millions of people. All of these people arrive at their destination as they choose. As mentioned earlier not a single death in 6 yrs. That is absolutely phenomenal. On occasion, severe weather events disrupt air travel. Some flights are delayed and/or cancelled and sometimes people get stuck on a plane for 2, 3, or maybe 4 hrs. A few hundred have been stranded for as long as 7 hrs on a plane. What's in the news headlines the next day?

AIRLINE HOLDS PASS HOSTAGE ON TARMAC FOR 7 HOURS!! TOILET OVERFLOWS!
The accompanying editorial says: Outrage! This is beyond human dignity! They should be heavily fined- possibly imprisoned for such shenanigans!



All I can say is OMG.

[Mayhemxpc]

When you went to Genva, did the pilot say. "Welcome folks, lets hurry up and board so that we can taxi out and sit for 3 hours" Not likley.
And origianlly this rule treated overseas fligthts differently, not sure about now..

Actually, he did say that we were pushing back to TRY to get ahead of the weather, so I wasn't too terribly surprised that we didn't make it -- and appreciated that he tried.

When ATC tells you that they expect release in a certain time and you know how many planes are ahead of you, then you can make a good guess, but that is all it is. I have been on three international flights where the three hour rule was in play. Only had to go back to the gate once. The important thing is communications. In two of the three times the captain was very communicative and reasonably forthcoming about what was really going on. I have had enough other things to complain about with the airlines not to fume over weather delays.

It was better than another time, running a mile and a half through Frankfurt terminal to get to a connecting flight before they closed the doors (I did it in about 12 minutes, in a suit and coat with carry on -- and included going through passport control) only to find out that the flight had been cancelled hours before -- in fact, before my flight left its originating station. And then I had the pleasure of the agents treating me like it was my fault I was stuck in Frankfurt!

[Mayhemxpc]

Actually, we've had some pretty good bus experiences of late. I lived out near Dulles Airport and visit NYC (got relatives there) periodically. We've got a bus that runs from a park and ride not too far from my house to NYC cheaper than I could think about even parking my car at the airport. Sit on a clean, comfortable bus with WIFI even and cool it for a few hours and I'm dropped off in Time Square. Certainly beats the commercial airlines time wise and I can't even get even do as well GA wise. The train wouldn't be bad, but I still have to get downtown in DC (parking is expensive and you can't leave the car at the Metro stations for an extended period).

Ron, I live in Manassas so I have the advantage of having an AMTRAK station only a few minutes away. (Parking is free for train passengers.) Going anywhere in the NE corridor is a no brainer. If I am not flying myself, I take the train. Cheaper than the airlines, more comfortable, more reliable, and as you point out -- you arrive downtown where you are going! Did I mention that all-in all, it is faster, too (especially on the Acela.) I have also heard great things about that shuttle bus -- especially the price and that it it is relatively comfortable.

[Floatsflyer]

Let's compare two industries:

Medical industry:

Airline industry:

AIRLINE HOLDS PASS HOSTAGE ON TARMAC FOR 7 HOURS!! TOILET OVERFLOWS!
The accompanying editorial says: Outrage! This is beyond human dignity! They should be heavily fined- possibly imprisoned for such shenanigans!

All I can say is OMG.

You can come up with as many unrelated comparatives as you like but none of them will diminish the awful experience of being confined to a very small space for a long period of time without the necessities of life. Next time you book a flight don't forget your depends.

[martymayes]

You can come up with as many unrelated comparatives as you like but none of them will diminish the awful experience of being confined to a very small space for a long period of time without the necessities of life. Next time you book a flight don't forget your depends.

I think its very related. I had a good friend who went in the hospital for a discectomy and left the hospital 3 days later dead. Can you show me an example of where the airlines have mistreated anyone to the point they died? Can you imagine the public outrage if that happened??

Floats, have you ever been stuck on a plane for more than 5 hrs? I have. Apparently all the necessities of life were provided because not only did I not die, I just didn't think it was that big a deal. I didn't get meal vouchers, hotel room vouchers or travel vouchers for later travel like everyone else and I'm still not complaining.

The odds of getting suck on a plane for an unreasonable amount of time is infinitesimal. Time to let it go.