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Thread: Airlines Now

  1. #1

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    Airlines Now

    Many of us travel by airlines, when not flying our planes. The airlines have some big advantages, first of all they are safer. U S major airlines have not had a single passenger fatalitiy in six years. Thats extraordinary, especially in view of the millions of people and millions of miles flown and private gen aviation doesnt have that record, nor does other forms of transportation. The are deaths on subways, trains, buses, even cruise ships and ferries, carnival rides. etc, and thousands of driving accidents.
    The other big advantage is weather flying, if you need to be on a schedule, the airline can and will go in most weather, when light gen av flying might not. Bad weather flying is one area where gen av accidents occur. And sometimes with bad imc or turbulence, it is easier to ride than fly. This is particularly true if you have to go a long distance or overseas. Not too many folks fly their Cessna to Hawaii or Europe.
    On some routes the airline can be cheaper than flying our plane. Where a private plane can be cost effective is if you have several people where airlines would charge for each.
    Funwise, the reverse is true. There was a time when airline travel emphsized customer experience but not now. Its like comparing a dounut to a bagel. Both have flour, but only one is sweet.And private flyihg is more flexible if you have time to do so.
    The new issue of Consumer reports rates airlines. Jet Blue and Southwest at top of budget ones. and Virgin and Alaska for luxury ones.. I dont like Jet Blue for their holding passenger hostage for hours on the tarmac a few years back. It took a passenger revolt to get a law passed to stop that.
    The article also points out how seat size and comfort has shrunk over the years, even though people havent.
    Many EAA members are also airline pilots, I have freinds at Delta, SW, and United.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-31-2017 at 12:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Once you're on the aluminum tube, it's OK except there is no longer any service. However, from the time you go through the airport front doors to the time you actually board, you feel oppressed and suffer an ordeal. Having to fly airlines now is not fun, it's just a necessity.

    I had 2 neighbours who flew for Air Canada, captains on a A320 and a cargo 747. The one on the cargo 747 said he loved it so much more than flying passengers. When I asked him why, he replied, "cargo doesn't talk or complain."

    Bill, I guess you've never had a raisin bagel...pretty sweet.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    I dont like Jet Blue for their holding passenger hostage for hours on the tarmac a few years back. It took a passenger revolt to get a law passed to stop that.
    Not sure what has been stopped. About $6 mil in fines has been assessed for DOT +3 hr violations since the rule went into effect. Jet Blue is the least likely to take a DOT delay fine so that's your best bet to avoid a 3+ hr delay.
    Like most knee jerk bureaucratic rules, an unintended consequence is that there are more delays and cancellations. Not going to be stuck on a plane for 3 hrs cause they'll just cancel and let people sleep in the airport, which to many is much worse than the delay. Kinda like shooting yourself in the foot.

  4. #4
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    The problem is not that airline service is so bad, the problem is that the majority of travelers buy their tickets solely based on price. If you're willing to pay for it, airline travel can be pretty pleasant... no baggage or checked luggage fees, free drinks, a meal, wide, comfortable seats, plenty of legroom.

    But, most people want the trip as absolutely cheap as they can get it. Then complain about having to pay to check luggage, or fight for overhead compartment space, or getting only a little pack of pretzels to eat, crammed in six abreast with your knees jammed under your armpits. But, oh, my, they SAVED a couple of bucks, didn't they?

    Ron Wanttaja

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    Ron, I wouldn't mind any of that sardine treatment except for one thing:

    Passengers now dress better for a quick trip to Walmart than they do a five hour trip in an airplane. Hell, people dress nicer on Greyhound buses than they do for a Delta flight.

    I'm not saying that we should go back to the days of wearing our Sunday best on aircraft, but maybe shirts with sleeves isn't asking too much, is it? And clothes make the man, as it were. If one is dressed for a backyard BBQ/kegger, one tends to act like it.

    And if the flight is more than three hours, springing for Business Class is more than worth the price.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    Ron, I wouldn't mind any of that sardine treatment except for one thing:

    Passengers now dress better for a quick trip to Walmart than they do a five hour trip in an airplane. Hell, people dress nicer on Greyhound buses than they do for a Delta flight.

    I'm not saying that we should go back to the days of wearing our Sunday best on aircraft, but maybe shirts with sleeves isn't asking too much, is it? And clothes make the man, as it were. If one is dressed for a backyard BBQ/kegger, one tends to act like it.

    And if the flight is more than three hours, springing for Business Class is more than worth the price.
    May I ask...when was the last time you traveled Grayhound? A friend did this not long ago. He is a member here but he will never post. Anyway he told me never again will he travel by bus. He said there was no way he was shutting his eye's the complete trip. He said it was one of the scariest trips he has made. Back in the 60's my mom stuck me on one of those buses at the age of 6 for a 600 mile trip. Today if you did this the child would be gone.

    Tony

  7. #7
    PaulDow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    The problem is not that airline service is so bad, the problem is that the majority of travelers buy their tickets solely based on price. If you're willing to pay for it, airline travel can be pretty pleasant...
    Remember Midwest Express airline? 2 X 2 seating on MD-80 planes, real meals and flight attendants who really liked their jobs. It was a fantastic way to fly. I took them to Milwaukee a few times. I was so impressed that I bought some stock. I figured who would want to fly any other way since the fare was only about $15 more than their competitors. Their annual report financial statement even separated how much they spent on catering so they could brag about their service.

    Then the internet come along. It pushed their fare down the screen. They had to change most, and then all, of their flights to lower service which didn't differentiate them from any other airline. With their limited routes they couldn't compete. They were acquired by Northwest (who lost a lot of money on the deal) and then Republic.

    The race to the bottom has been going on for a while.

    Edit: How could I forget? Baked onboard cookies too!
    Last edited by PaulDow; 02-01-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #8
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    Midwest Express was the best. I used them whenever I could, and miss them. I've looked at better seats -- maybe they are "a little" more expensive on some flights, but it seems like every time I get tempted I find the cost difference is staggering. The last time I checked on a long flight, say Chicago to Frankfurt, business class seats went for roughly 5x the cost of coach.

    Besides... I figure after getting treated like mentally retarded criminals at the airport, why not complete the experience?
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. I am building a Fisher Celebrity, slowly.

  9. #9

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    Marty, before the ruling came in that airlines had to give passengers food and water after 2hours sitting and fines after 3 hours, some airlines, think Jet Blue was the first,worst held people on planes for as much as 8 or 9 hours. It wasnt a case of a couple of hours delaly vs cancelling a flight. Often after virtually kidnapping people for 8 or 9 hours, refusing to give them any choice or chance to get off, without food and water, or even working toilets. then the flight would be cancelled in the end, sometimes the crew would have to be replaced due to timeing out.
    The airlines had lots of ecuses on why they could not treat people with common courtesy, including old people and babies, but it took the power of $25,000 fines per passenger to give them a conscience. On one of these flights the pilot was even on the side of the passengers but the airline told him not to taxi back.
    Can you think of any other business that claims they had the right to hold people hostage? Do you think hotel guest would be ok with being stuck in an elevator all night or that a subway car could refuse to open the doors at a station or a taxicab be able to lock passengers inside overninght if traffic was backed up. If a football game had a weather delaly in starting could the stadium lock people inside or a concert where the band is hours late refuse to let people leave?
    One airline, may have been United, not sure, held people locked inside for 8 hurs at Austin, for a flight to Dallas which is a half hour flight, or a 3 hour drive in a rental car or maybe on the bus. I think the lady who finally went to Congress and got the law passed was on that flight. The airlines were great at excuses such as not enough gates, but the $25,000 fine per passenger certainly improved their ability to find a gate.
    That nonsense is pretty much in the past now, and one longer than 3 hours would be rare today.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 02-01-2017 at 11:08 AM.

  10. #10

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    I recently had an airline flight, and was surprised at how easy and almost human TSA was, not the usual hassle. Maybe that was a laid back California type attitude?

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