Pearl Harbor, New Program

[Bill Greenwood]

With the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, Ive seen a couple of programs with new info on tv.
Hitler has no advance notice of the attack but was delighted when he heard, he thought that would guarantee German victory over the U S. He really underestimated our industrial capacity as well as will once the nation was united. In the aftermath of WWI there was a strong peace movement in the U S, but that vanished with Japans attack. Lindbergh was cautious about the war, but was a vaueable aid once it began, and flew some combat in the Pacific.
Churchill had said that if Japan attacked the U S he would declare war immediately and he kept his word. He thought this would bring the US fully into the war as happened.
There was fear of Japanese action before Pearl, but no real intel to give a defintive place and time to any general warning. The day after the attack Gen MacArthur was not prepared to defend either.
The Japanese carriers sent two waves of planes to attack Pearl and had a lot of sucess, but made a mistake in not sending a 3rd wave that could have destroyed even more ships and airport and army bases. They had already negated most of fighter opposition on the ground, but would have faced some antiaircraft fire the 3rd time.
Ive been to the aviation museum on Ford Island, right where it happened, small but worth a visit.
It think many in the U S have an extra animosity toward Japan since the attack was done before war was declared by Japan, they had a message but it was delivered in Wash too late. Japan did not attack civilian areas on Oahu, the few civilian casualties were from "friendly" fire. The program said this attack was one of our two biggest intel failures, along with 9-11. U S losses were similar in both, 2400 and 2900, and both attacks were by aircraft, no ground or naval forces as for as is known.
Prime Minister Abe, will be the first to attend services in Hawaii, perhaps he will offer a sincere apology for starting the war.
Japan was our enemy then, is a close ally now and China has gone from an ally then, to an enemy in the 50s to some mddle role now.

[rwanttaja]

The program said this attack was one of our two biggest intel failures, along with 9-11. U S losses were similar in both, 2400 and 2900, and both attacks were by aircraft, no ground or naval forces.

Actually, this is not quite the case. Japan deployed five midget submarines to coordinate with the air attack. One was sunk off the coast a few hours before the air attack, leading to a heightened alert level in some quarters, at least. It was beached and the US captured it.

The crews of the submarines were quite famous, in Japan:



In addition, after the war, an aerial photo taken by one the Japanese pilots became available:



There is a dark block in the mid-harbor area at the start of one of the torpedo tracks. Some believe it's the conning tower of one of the subs. USS Oklahoma was hit by several torpedoes, and one appeared to be much larger (more explosive force) than the aerial torpedoes.

Ron "Climb Mount Niitaka" Wanttaja

[1600vw]

The leader of Japan is coming here to visit Pearl. They say they will not apologize for this attack and that the American soldier should get over it. I just heard this on the news not 5 mins ago. Made me sick to my stomach.

[rwanttaja]

The leader of Japan is coming here to visit Pearl. They say they will not apologize for this attack and that the American soldier should get over it. I just heard this on the news not 5 mins ago. Made me sick to my stomach.

Been 75 years, dude. Few of the current Japanese politicians or military were even alive when it happened. Honor the dead, remember the lessons, and move on.

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

Been 75 years, dude. Few of the current Japanese politicians or military were even alive when it happened. Honor the dead, remember the lessons, and move on.

Ron Wanttaja

Sure it's been 75 years. But no one should ever tell the American Soldier to get over something like this or the American Public. We can move on but don't ask anyone to not expect an apology. Spit in my face then want me to be your friend because you say so. Not without an apology, and maybe then, just maybe. People forget what a true friend is. Today people believe a friend is a fren-e-my.
IMHO honoring those who did this is not honoring the dead. If they want to come here it should come with an apology, plain and simple or stay away from this area. To do anything else is rubbing our nose in it...IMHO

[1600vw]

If they are not going to apologize why come here? To say...look what we did to you? Or to say we could do this again? What is the point of the visit if not to mend fences. The only way to do that is to apologize for attacking us. IMHO don't attack me or my family then a few years later expect me to befriend you, not without some apology. I don't have to fight you but don't come to my home and expect me to welcome you with open arms. People have forgotten the art of being a friend. Japan is acting like our friend, they need to talk the talk not just walk the walk.

[rwanttaja]

According to Wikipedia, Japan's emperor attempted to apologize for Pearl Harbor. The US rejected it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan

Ron Wanttaja

[DaleB]

I've always felt that soundly beating the living snot out of someone obviates the need for an apology for whatever it was that they did. They don't apologize for Pearl harbor, we don't apologize for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the odd firebombing raid on Tokyo. Some people will hold grudges forever, the rest move on. Call it even.

[1600vw]

I've always felt that soundly beating the living snot out of someone obviates the need for an apology for whatever it was that they did. They don't apologize for Pearl harbor, we don't apologize for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the odd firebombing raid on Tokyo. Some people will hold grudges forever, the rest move on. Call it even.

Someone attacks me and I beat the snot out of them, don't ever expect an apology from me. I myself was taught after your beating you apologize for the reason you got beat.

[Floatsflyer]

Last night I watched a new documentary about the PH attack and aftermath that marks the 75th anniversary. Called "Pearl Harbor: The Accused", it tells the fascinating story of the how and why of the failure to stop the Japanese surprise attack and who was unfairly blamed.

The doc plays like a political thriller with many new insights into who was actually to blame. Admiral Husband Kimmel, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet soon became the very handy scapegoat to blame by an angry country, it's public and especially it's military and politicians. In a rush to judgement Kimmel was found guilty of dereliction of duty which destroyed his career and most of his personal life. A few years later he was afforded a non-public military hearing based on new evidence and was found to be totally not guilty of the serious offence. It was not made public though so Kimmel fought unsuccessfully for public exoneration up until his death in the 1960's. His grandson till this very day still fights for his grandfather's exoneration and honour. Every president since the end of WW2 has, despite the not guilty 2nd hearing, refused to exonerate him. The film try's to answer "why?".

Much of the film is based on a new book, " A Matter Of Honor" which is an in depth journalistic investigation of the PH attack based on newly released and uncovered documents and events of the time. We discover that there are startling similarities between PH and 9/11 in the days and weeks prior to these events in terms who knew what when and who kept precious Intel from those who should have been advised. The surprise part of the PH attack could have easily been avoided and as such would have changed the course of history.

Hundreds of thousands of lives over the next 4 years would soon be sacrificed in the name of political expediency and desire and all the evidence shows it reached the highest levels of the presidency, navy and army. So what else is knew?