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Thread: Oshkosh Trams, Can we do Better!

  1. #11
    Byron J. Covey
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    Sincere question here: Why are there separate blue and red routes? Why not run every tram from the far south to the far north and back?


    BJC

  2. #12

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    Sounds like a great idea to me Ron....I have NO authority as regards trams, but hopefully some of the EAA staff read this forum and will take note for next year. I also don't know why some stops didn't have signage on both sides of the road this year.

    It would require that the signs were 'customized' for each tram stop of course, but that should not be a huge issue? I really don't know who is the 'sign czar' for AirVenture.....but I'll wager there IS one - lol

    I'll wait to see how this thread progresses and will be happy to send a link to the tram chief for his review.

  3. #13

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    Ron, Good idea but been brought up before. First though, gotta get people to read the signs and or listen to the poor person on back that is shouting his lungs out and no one listening. The tram chairs get their orders from on high, so you would have to ask whoever this mysterious person is.

  4. #14

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    Byron, only reason I can come up with for this is that the tractor company puts mileage and hour restrictions on the tractors

    Bill L

  5. #15

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    Good question Byron - perhaps because there is much higher pedestrian traffic from the Hangar Café to Warbirds?

    I really don't know though. It's an idea worthy of some discussion and thought.

    There IS some benefit having one or two 'terminals' that force all passengers off to allow others a chance for a ride. Too often attendees just want to go for a ride for hours rather than use the trams as they were intended- a point-to-point conveyance. As I end up mentioning as a conductor.."If nobody gets off the tram, nobody can get on it."

    Worth noting that there are not many areas large enough to provide safe turn-around of a tram either.

    There used to also be a yellow route if memory serves. Maybe Red could just go from the Tower to the North 40 gate, and a Yellow route could run from the Tower to the Hangar Café?

    I really don't know if there is a perfect answer to the issues raised. Even something seemingly simple like a small route change has a huge ripple effect - right off the bat all the free maps handed out would have to be changed, as well as the website. Doubtless everything involved with AirVenture must pass through the hands of EAA's legal department for their nod too?
    Last edited by CHICAGORANDY; 09-01-2016 at 07:24 AM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY View Post

    There IS some benefit having one or two 'terminals' that force all passengers off to allow others a chance for a ride. Too often attendees just want to go for a ride for hours rather than use the trams as they were intended- a point-to-point conveyance. As I end up mentioning as a conductor.."If nobody gets off the tram, nobody can get on it."
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    I've been flying in now for about 8 years and use the tram system a lot. I seem to remember a few years go that they made everyone get off at the main stops and I thought that was a great idea. And I also thought I had remembered that the south trams stayed south and the north trams stayed north. But this year it seemed (I didn't ride to ultralights this year; only north 40 to tower) that the trams were running from the furthest south to the furthest north. What frustrated me the most was waiting in line at one the main stops (tower) and having people ignore the lines and just get on ahead of everyone else. And since there were usually only a few people getting off, I'd end up waiting for another tram or two to get my ride. The trams should be structured so that everyone needs to get off at a stop. South to center, center to north, north to north 40 then force people to get off the trams. I did see a lot of people at the intermediate stops along the way. I never was on a tram that wasn't at capacity so I don't know how often those people would even get picked up. To me, that says you're at or beyond capacity. If the numbers are up, you'll need to expect to put more trams/capacity on the road...

    If the runway is a sticking point then what I'd do is have another stop south of the taxiway by warbirds where the main line runs back. That way things can stay in time. Then have a shorter run with two trams to the north 40. You need to take that out of the equation...

  7. #17
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The "TOWER" hasn't been a terminus for the past two years. I don't know why they stopped using it for such. The RED tram ran from the North 40 to the Hangar Cafe this year and the Blue south from there. If I recall, last year, there was an adhoc terminus between Scholler and the south two exhibit buildings.

  8. #18

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    Ron, I have been driving for 12 + years and every year we have new rules laid out by someone in headquarters. All I could suggest is to see if you can get an answer from them. I am sure it is frustrating every year to the chair people. Just when the operation is starting to go smoothe and most of the bumps ironed out, someone has to change the pattern and rules. And yes, every year, I put my $.02 worth in, but that is all my ideas are worth.

    Bill L

  9. #19

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    Like Bill mentions - WE volunteers just follow whatever the new 'rules' are each year, as we learn the Saturday before the convention starts.. Prior to AirVenture there are chair & committee meetings that thrash out the details of how that year will proceed, to include tram routes and allowed signage.

    Ron, you are correct - last year there was a 'terminal' at the tram stop by Gate 27 and the S/E side of Hangar B, just across the road from where Jerry's One Man Band set up. In theory it looked good, and it DID make for similar length/duration red & blue routes which was nice, but in practice it was a nightmare getting the Blue/Red trams spun around in the midst of all the road/pedestrian traffic there. So this year it was moved back to the Hangar Café/Tram Office spot. There and the Tower location seem to offer the largest terminal footprint as the grounds are laid out. AirVenture does have vast acreage, but it is quickly consumed by planes and vendors, and where we could use additional terminals there isn't space, and where there's space we don't need terminals.

    I too look forward to 2017 to see where we'll be running then. I agree that it helps for folks to send in via e-mail their suggestions/concerns directly to EAA HQ since they make the decisions.

  10. #20
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    I would like to see trams run further south of the ultralight area but the road would need MUCH improvement. Not much suspension on those tram carts -

    As of three years ago there's a very nice paved road that goes all the way down to the south corner of the airport. We lost a lot of aircraft parking as a result. Yoo just need to turn RIGHT at Ultralights (right about the point the pavement stops now) and follow the perimeter road.

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