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Thread: I parked my Vintage Aircraft in GAC at #OSH16

  1. #1
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Lightbulb I parked my Vintage Aircraft in GAC at #OSH16

    Hey folks,
    I have tried to give myself some time to let this settle but I really want to put this out there. I parked my Vintage eligible ’57 PA-22/20 up in GAC instead of south of the Seaplanes on Saturday before AirVenture. I was disappointed that even arriving on Saturday I was going to be far down the line, but when I actually stopped and climbed out of my airplane I was speechless. A couple of points that brought me to the decision to taxi all the way up to GAC from VAC.


    1) No food, of any type. I couldn’t even see a vendor, heck I would have been happy with a vending machine!!! Yes, I believe there was a drink vending machine in the general vicinity but no food. The North 40 has a restaurant plus the ability to easily walk off the airport and eat, that distance being shorter than what I would have had to walk from where I would have been parked in VAC.


    2) No stores. North 40 has a temporary convenience store and again the ability to walk off the airport far more easily than down south.


    3) Extremely sparse facilities. I saw a couple porta potties and couple rows over and a shower trailer way off in the distance. The North 40 has TWO permanent shower facilities, one of them is the largest shower house on the entire convention grounds as far as I can tell. Also, both have flushing toilets that are supplemented with porta potties every couple rows. I know that show planes have been parking down south for years, a friend was down there at least back in 2010, but there have been no physical improvements down there beyond the perimeter road.


    4) Sporadic transportation. Never waited more than a few minutes for a bus to pass in the North 40, transport there seems to be well sorted. I did not wait to see how long it would take to catch a bus down south, I traveled down there one time to find some friends and their aircraft and had to walk quite a ways before an empty bus stopped and offered to pick me up. I don’t know what route it was scheduled on.


    This all leaves me with one question. Why does the North 40 have better facilities and amenities than show plane camping?


    Jim
    PS: Yes I registered as a show plane parked in GAC, no rules against that (yet). I don’t have my flying project judged but I have my mug and prop card if you care to see them. I even have a friend who won a VAA award several years ago while parked just inside the gate to the Super 8!
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
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    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  2. #2
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    1) No food, of any type

    The same operator that does the North 40 restaurant (Major Goolsby) runs the Vintage Cafe. There's also a Subway stand and the Machine Shed operates the Hangar Cafe and the Ultralight area food concession. Vintage itself operates the Tall Pines Cafe (much improved this year) which serves breakfast daily and also serves a few other meals prior to the show opening to pick up the slack from the other outlets.

    No stores.
    Don't know why on this one. It's a hike to the Red Barn in Scholler from Vintage.

    Extremely Sparse Facilities
    I've never noticed a shortage of portapotties in Vintage until the past two years. They switched contractors and while the portapotty units are nicer they seem to have less of them and serviced less frequently (and prior to the show opening many were not even equipped with blue water). They got better over the year this year but still it wasn't what it used to be.

    The new shower trailers behind the hangar cafe was really nice, there's still the old permanent shower house behind the red barn area. They did as part of the "Green Acres" improvement this year put a nicer set of trailers down at the south end of vintage (I think they were one of the flush toilet trailers).

    The major issue with PERMANENT facilities is that there isn't water or sewer in Vintage. There are a few wells which are pretty lousy and the gray water from the shower buildings/trailers just go into cisterns that get pumped out during the show.

    Sporadic transportation
    Don't know what the issue is here. We've got trams for a good part of it and busses after the trams stop. We've even got Tony's Taxi if needed.



  3. #3
    RickFE's Avatar
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    I have a 65 Cherokee 6 which would qualify as a "contemporary" in Vintage. First year I flew in to North 40 but made it a point to check out the VAC too. I found I preferred (although I have yet to actually try VAC) the N40 too. Mostly because of the N40's close proximity to stores off field. Quick and easy by bicycle. Also it seems as though the you could have some way to go, walking your bike at VAC to get on a road where you can ride it. No biking on the grounds of the airshow.

    So far I have two signs. GAC first choice, and VAC in case N40 was ever full or too wet. For Sloshkosh had to go to Fon Du Lac.

    I notice others have RV's in GAC too. Didn't ask but thought they probably felt the same way I did.

    One thing that did strike me about VAC though was that it seemed more tree lined in some areas and a bit more scenic in some ways.

    One of these times I am going to give VAC a try.

    P.S. I definitely liked the shower house facility at the N40. I have always made it in on a Saturday and have been pretty close to it. Very clean and well kept.
    Last edited by RickFE; 08-28-2016 at 09:38 AM.

  4. #4
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    They did as part of the "Green Acres" improvement this year put a nicer set of trailers down at the south end of vintage (I think they were one of the flush toilet trailers).
    Ron, haven't heard that term, but I assume you're talking about the huge field at the far south end, west of the extension of Wittman Rd., that was new this year. How did that work? I understood it was intended to replace some GAC parking land lost to construction. There seemed to be non-Vintage planes parked in there. Was it managed by Vintage, or did GAC send people down there to park aircraft and help with their departures?

    I felt sorry for people parked down there because the bus stopped and turned around long before reaching that area.

    Mike E

  5. #5
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post

    The same operator that does the North 40 restaurant (Major Goolsby) runs the Vintage Cafe. There's also a Subway stand and the Machine Shed operates the Hangar Cafe and the Ultralight area food concession. Vintage itself operates the Tall Pines Cafe (much improved this year) which serves breakfast daily and also serves a few other meals prior to the show opening to pick up the slack from the other outlets.
    Ron,

    I'm not talking about up there. I'm talking about SOUTH of the SEAPLANES. There is NOTHING down there.


    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Don't know why on this one. It's a hike to the Red Barn in Scholler from Vintage.

    Show me on an AirVenture map a store where I can buy a bag of ice SOUTH of the SEAPLANES.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    I've never noticed a shortage of portapotties in Vintage until the past two years. They switched contractors and while the portapotty units are nicer they seem to have less of them and serviced less frequently (and prior to the show opening many were not even equipped with blue water). They got better over the year this year but still it wasn't what it used to be.

    The new shower trailers behind the hangar cafe was really nice, there's still the old permanent shower house behind the red barn area. They did as part of the "Green Acres" improvement this year put a nicer set of trailers down at the south end of vintage (I think they were one of the flush toilet trailers).

    The major issue with PERMANENT facilities is that there isn't water or sewer in Vintage. There are a few wells which are pretty lousy and the gray water from the shower buildings/trailers just go into cisterns that get pumped out during the show.


    Don't know what the issue is here. We've got trams for a good part of it and busses after the trams stop. We've even got Tony's Taxi if needed.
    Actually, that is the only thing I did see enough of, porta potties. Ron, you have glossed over the area I am talking about. SOUTH of the SEAPLANES is where people are parked with nearly non-existent facilities. The showers you talk about are a 20 minute walk from where they wanted to park me in VAC. Just like the penthouse on the 50th floor, close but not close enough. None of the shower houses I have used in Camp Scholler are connected to the sewer system. I haven't been in the North 40 enough the last 20 years to pay attention to it, they may be on the sewer but that is two shower houses out of about 10. Cistern usage isn't a valid reason not to have permanent showers down SOUTH of the SEAPLANES. Last year I was camped around row 77 or so (I'd have to look at my prop card) and it was still a bit of a walk to your much vaunted trailers. Heck, you can't even get a cup of coffee until you make it to the Vintage Café.

    Trams? Busses? Where is the bus when I need to go volunteer at 0530? Yes, I have to be up and out even earlier if I'm down SOUTH of the SEAPLANES. Or when I finish up for the day at 2330? Yes, I have long days at OSH. The sheer distance from my Volunteer job contributed to my decision, along with the distance from events I need to attend North of the airport.

    The more I think about this the more I might just go back to hauling my camper up and leave the airplane at home. Who needs another show plane any way?
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
    Vintage 722607
    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  6. #6
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickFE View Post
    I notice others have RV's in GAC too. Didn't ask but thought they probably felt the same way I did.
    I also saw several RVs and other homebuilts in GAC. Didn't try to approach them and ask why they decided to park there. Maybe next year I'll ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickFE View Post
    One thing that did strike me about VAC though was that it seemed more tree lined in some areas and a bit more scenic in some ways.
    The problem is Rick those areas are always reserved either for groups (the Spartans, Ercoupes, Swifts, etc.) or are already paid up spots like I've had done for me in Camp Scholler. You'll need to be there by Tuesday or Wednesday before the show to try and claim one of those nice spots.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickFE View Post
    P.S. I definitely liked the shower house facility at the N40. I have always made it in on a Saturday and have been pretty close to it. Very clean and well kept.
    My first trip to Oshkosh was in 1987, I believe the red shower in the N40 was nearly new then as GAC was pushed west by the expansion of warbirds. IIRC the shower house in warbirds was just east of the beginning of GAC back then. The "taj mah shower" is excellent. They just need a couple of those down on the south end, along with a camp store!
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
    Vintage 722607
    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  7. #7
    steve's Avatar
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    I camped with my RV9A in the N40 back in 2008 and 2009 because one of the pilots in our group was still flying his C182, as his RV6 was not yet completed.

  8. #8
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEdwards View Post
    Ron, haven't heard that term, but I assume you're talking about the huge field at the far south end, west of the extension of Wittman Rd., that was new this year. How did that work? I understood it was intended to replace some GAC parking land lost to construction. There seemed to be non-Vintage planes parked in there. Was it managed by Vintage, or did GAC send people down there to park aircraft and help with their departures?
    Yes, to counter some of the area lost to the inane perimeter road (further compounding the loss to the FAA moving the burn line back after a DC-3 ended up in the ditch a decade or so ago), the airport turned over a previous corn field for parking (and the I road on it last year in one of the security vehicles and it was a disaster, the grounds people did a bang up job getting it passable for this years show). Yes, this year it was used for GA parking. Vintage Flight Line handled getting people in and out of there but it was a policy decision of the higher ups when to open it up and what to send down there. To my knowledge we parked no Vintage planes in that area though the Vintage parking has traditionally been just adjacent to that area.

    At least the EAA did kick in some resources to get another Registration, Ice vendor, and shower/toilet trailer down there as part of the expansion.

  9. #9
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    There was a Showplane registration building as part of the Green Acres expansion (YES SOUTH OF SEAPLANES) and they were selling ice there so while I agree about your other point, there were services down there THIS YEAR that weren't there in the past. Believe me, I don know how it is. I have been working and volunteering for decades and one year I arrived late and did end up down there "south of fondy."

  10. #10

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    Another view from the south.

    This year in particular I was amazed at how expansive the work and improvements in the North 40 have been. Our first two years coming we parked in the North 40 and all that was there was the original red bathhouse. Now it is great.

    The past two years we have parked and camped in the south 40. In 2015 we arrived Sunday afternoon and were in row 136, not quite at the end of the line, but almost. This year, due to the weather, we arrived Sunday morning instead of our planned Saturday afternoon and ended up in row 125. Since things were expanded for the GAC overflow parking there we were no longer near the end 🤑.
    I have to agree with many of the earlier comments.
    1. No life sustaining amenities as we know them exist south of the ultralight zone/seaplane parking but a ton of camping planes do. Yes there are porta potties, and they did add a second shower trailer in the expanded area but if you did not happen to be there when the VAC gator was running around selling ice you had to haul it from the tallpines or red barn. Yes they seemed to be selling ice at the new registration desk In the south 40, but it had limited hours and was closed after, IIRC, Tuesday so we often lugged ice from the tall pines cafe after breakfast back to the plane. Special thanks to the VAC folks for running the tall pines and the ice gators!

    2. I know the show doesn't officially open until Monday morning but I wish EAA would keep in mind that the place is pretty full on Saturday and Sunday before the show. We were less than impressed when we had dinner at one of the places near the Hilton Garden Inn, caught the bus to the North 40 gate then had to walk from there to row 125 in the south 40 because, according to the drivers, after 8 pm they were told to stop running ALL TRAMS AND BUSSES! The rest of the week they ran busses after hours to the south 40 until 11pm. But not on Sunday night.

    3. Yes they did put in a new shower trailer in the expanded south 40, but I must say it has smaller stalls making it difficult to change without getting your clothes wet and were not nearly as nice as the other trailers near the seaplane bus stop they installed last year .


    Now that I have ragged on things I have to be fair. The show was great. When the TRAMS and busses were scheduled they worked well, the drivers were great, very polite and accommodating. The new food choices in the main areas are also a welcome improvement although it would be nice if some of stayed open in the evening. Hopefully now that the North 40 has been upgraded, and overflow GAC parking has moved south EAA will begin to improve the south 40.
    We had a great time and look forward to coming back.

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