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Thread: Instrumentation for the Pietenpol

  1. #1

    Instrumentation for the Pietenpol

    I'm currently still in the very early stages of building my Pietenpol (waiting for wood for wing ribs).
    often times in my boredom between my Accounting 202 and ECON 201 classes I get lost in day dreaming about what I could do. Ultimately, I want it to look like a classy wooden plane from its own design days, but when you sit in the cockpit I want that old world to clash with this generation of technology. I haven't given this much thought so forgive my ignorance but... could I install an EFD instead of drilling multiple holes for a number of instruments?
    i guess my concerns would be the peripherals that I'm not think of that would need to be installed on the plane. I'm up for it all, so long it doesn't make massive changes to the CG of the plane.

  2. #2
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    I saw this a couple of weeks back, and seriously drooled at the idea of putting it in a Fly Baby. It's the Aeolus Sense by Talon Avionics. For $600, you get a box that does all the sensing, and wirelessly sends to an Android or Apple Tablet:

    http://www.talosavionics.com/aeolus-sense/

    Good video explaining the setup:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EyxTI8fL34

    Ron Wanttaja

  3. #3
    WOW! That's amazing! The only thing you would have to ensure is that you can keep the device of choice charging throughout the flight!

  4. #4
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley Coleman View Post
    WOW! That's amazing! The only thing you would have to ensure is that you can keep the device of choice charging throughout the flight!
    Plenty of car chargers available; one could permanently install one with the appropriate connector on the panel where the tablet goes.

    My personal inclination is to just buy a dedicated tablet for the airplane and clamp it to the panel. Tablets are pretty cheap these days, and certainly a used one would be even cheaper and probably a good option.

    My only concern would be sunlight readability. However, for a low-and-slow airplane like the Piet or Fly Baby, the EFIS would be more an occasional reference rather than a vital item.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Plenty of car chargers available; one could permanently install one with the appropriate connector on the panel where the tablet goes.

    My personal inclination is to just buy a dedicated tablet for the airplane and clamp it to the panel. Tablets are pretty cheap these days, and certainly a used one would be even cheaper and probably a good option.

    My only concern would be sunlight readability. However, for a low-and-slow airplane like the Piet or Fly Baby, the EFIS would be more an occasional reference rather than a vital item.

    Ron Wanttaja
    There are tons a quality glare protectors that are dirt cheap and do a fantastic job. The most common thing I see happen for pilots who use tablets are overheating in direct sunlight. However I can't see this being a problem in open cockpits.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley Coleman View Post
    ...The most common thing I see happen for pilots who use tablets are overheating in direct sunlight. However I can't see this being a problem in open cockpits.
    Well...I've been flying open cockpit almost exclusively for thirty years, and and not as sanguine about avoiding overheating.

    A well-designed open cockpit isn't all that drafty, and the slipstream normally won't directly impinge on the panel. And an open-cockpit airplane is probably more likely to be flying on hot days. Plus, of course, the tablet will heat up in the direct sunlight, at least during some parts of the day/some aircraft headings.

    There's also the case of the airplane heating up while sitting on the ground. With the sun at the wrong angle, it'll be directly impacting the device. Which, while off, has a dark screen and is more likely to absorb solar heating. Sitting all day at a Fly-In isn't going to help. Though, of course, you would probably dismount the panel for theft prevention anyway. But like I posted earlier, I'm more tending towards a permanent installation.

    I'm just a little sensitive about the heat-soak issue. Couple of summers back, my Fly Baby's wings swelled in the heat and sun on the ground enough to cause interference to the ailerons.

    http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/heat_controls.html

    But please, don't take my comments as being negative on the concept. I'd be happy to do it, myself. The only way to really know if one would have a glare or heat problem is to actually install an EFIS in an open-cockpit machine, and I'd love to give it a shot. The great things about Piets and Fly Babies is that the instruments are really secondary; they're not truly vital for flight. If an EFIS craps out in flight, those planes can be easily flown back and landed without gauges.

    Ron Wanttaja

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Well...I've been flying open cockpit almost exclusively for thirty years, and and not as sanguine about avoiding overheating.

    A well-designed open cockpit isn't all that drafty, and the slipstream normally won't directly impinge on the panel. And an open-cockpit airplane is probably more likely to be flying on hot days. Plus, of course, the tablet will heat up in the direct sunlight, at least during some parts of the day/some aircraft headings.

    There's also the case of the airplane heating up while sitting on the ground. With the sun at the wrong angle, it'll be directly impacting the device. Which, while off, has a dark screen and is more likely to absorb solar heating. Sitting all day at a Fly-In isn't going to help. Though, of course, you would probably dismount the panel for theft prevention anyway. But like I posted earlier, I'm more tending towards a permanent installation.

    I'm just a little sensitive about the heat-soak issue. Couple of summers back, my Fly Baby's wings swelled in the heat and sun on the ground enough to cause interference to the ailerons.

    http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/heat_controls.html

    But please, don't take my comments as being negative on the concept. I'd be happy to do it, myself. The only way to really know if one would have a glare or heat problem is to actually install an EFIS in an open-cockpit machine, and I'd love to give it a shot. The great things about Piets and Fly Babies is that the instruments are really secondary; they're not truly vital for flight. If an EFIS craps out in flight, those planes can be easily flown back and landed without gauges.

    Ron Wanttaja
    I've never thought about the wing swelling up but it makes sense!
    I would probably prefer to rig up a permanent mount inside the dash along with a charging cable but the device would more than likely stay on hand for applications such as ForeFlight.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    DaleB's Avatar
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    I'm kind of torn on my Celebrity build. Part of me likes the ridiculous ease of installing a single, light weight, shallow depth screen for everything. You get full engine instrumentation, all of it. Used EFIS panels are not terribly expensive, especially if you price out a few decent quality steam gauges.

    On the other hand... it's a wood and fabric biplane! It really needs a more vintage looking panel, preferably independent of the electrical system. And since I'm only a few ribs in, it seems I'll have quite a while to hit swap meets and such and watch for deals on the very few instruments I really want on board. I already picked up a really nice looking Westach quad gauge -- oil temp & pressure, CHT and EGT, I think it is. Or maybe some other combination, I'm too lazy to go look right now. Anyway, I'm watching for good deals on decent quality used instruments that either look close to new, or can be restored to like-new appearance. I think I'll probably be looking to install something that looks like it belongs in the airplane

    Personally, I would not fly with a tablet based system fed data over a BT or wifi connection. Too fiddly. Too unreliable. I want to know that when I roll up the hangar door, the airplane is going to be ready to fly. No worry about dead tablet battery, USB charger flaked out, software needs an update, any of that cr@p. I deal with that kind of thing all day long, when it's time to fly I just want to bloody well go fly. And it's not like it's going to get you out of the wiring and panel building... you'll still need at least some rudimentary engine instrumentation, and (if you have an engine driven electrical system) a radio and transponder.

    What are you planning to use for your Pietenpower?
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. I am building a Fisher Celebrity, slowly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    I'm kind of torn on my Celebrity build. Part of me likes the ridiculous ease of installing a single, light weight, shallow depth screen for everything. You get full engine instrumentation, all of it. Used EFIS panels are not terribly expensive, especially if you price out a few decent quality steam gauges.

    On the other hand... it's a wood and fabric biplane! It really needs a more vintage looking panel, preferably independent of the electrical system. And since I'm only a few ribs in, it seems I'll have quite a while to hit swap meets and such and watch for deals on the very few instruments I really want on board. I already picked up a really nice looking Westach quad gauge -- oil temp & pressure, CHT and EGT, I think it is. Or maybe some other combination, I'm too lazy to go look right now. Anyway, I'm watching for good deals on decent quality used instruments that either look close to new, or can be restored to like-new appearance. I think I'll probably be looking to install something that looks like it belongs in the airplane

    Personally, I would not fly with a tablet based system fed data over a BT or wifi connection. Too fiddly. Too unreliable. I want to know that when I roll up the hangar door, the airplane is going to be ready to fly. No worry about dead tablet battery, USB charger flaked out, software needs an update, any of that cr@p. I deal with that kind of thing all day long, when it's time to fly I just want to bloody well go fly. And it's not like it's going to get you out of the wiring and panel building... you'll still need at least some rudimentary engine instrumentation, and (if you have an engine driven electrical system) a radio and transponder.

    What are you planning to use for your Pietenpower?


    I haven't made a solid decision in that field yet. I'm just way too far from it. However, I think I'm interested in making a clash between vintage (like you're doing) and modern glass. I imagine this looking like: 'wooden dash with few normal gauges and then an EFIS in the center. while the rest of the cockpit environment will stay bare and simple'. Basically bringing a touch of modern tech. to a vintage cockpit. While I love the vintage planes in all of their simplicity (which is why I'm building a Piet.) I feel like I have the opportunity to show a different concept to the younger generation. I've always been an admirer of NASA and now SpaceX and their images of ingenuity and futuristic view. So in a way I'm chasing to combine the old and new through a Pietenpol!

  10. #10
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley Coleman View Post
    I haven't made a solid decision in that field yet. I'm just way too far from it. However, I think I'm interested in making a clash between vintage (like you're doing) and modern glass. I imagine this looking like: 'wooden dash with few normal gauges and then an EFIS in the center. while the rest of the cockpit environment will stay bare and simple'. Basically bringing a touch of modern tech. to a vintage cockpit. While I love the vintage planes in all of their simplicity (which is why I'm building a Piet.) I feel like I have the opportunity to show a different concept to the younger generation. I've always been an admirer of NASA and now SpaceX and their images of ingenuity and futuristic view. So in a way I'm chasing to combine the old and new through a Pietenpol!
    A man after my own heart. I just completed a 40-year career in the Space industries, participating in the design, construction, testing, or operation of about 17 satellites and ~25 upper stage rockets. Most of the time while flying a 1930's throwback airplane on the weekends. :-)

    The Pietenpol Facebook group recently posted a photo of a cover that fits over the instrument panel on the ground, and makes the panel look like a fancy EFIS system. You certainly could go the other way; build the tablet-based EFIS and have a more traditional-looking cover for it when you're parked at airshows.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

    (edit: added Facebook link. Probably won't work for everyone)

    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 03-30-2017 at 04:14 PM.

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