Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: DAR Inspections at Cost?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    155

    DAR Inspections at Cost?

    Back around 2003, the EAA realized that more DARs were needed to signoff builder's planes. The EAA gave $1000 scholarships to individuals completing the DAR program with the proviso that the new DAR do builder inspections at his cost to the EAA member builder for one year. I selected such a DAR in 2004 to inspect the Pulsar I was finishing and the final cost was around $100, a very reasonable price.
    I'm getting close to completing a Zenith 701 and would like to know if such DARs are still doing inspections at cost?
    Bob H

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,236
    I don't know about DAR's, but it's worth the phone call to the FDSO to see if they have someone available to do the inspection. I'd long been told that the only real route was through a DAR as the FAA was simply too busy to do them.

    When our preferred DAR was no longer able to do them (medical reasons), I had finally found a guy that with transportation would have come out at around a grand. On a whim I called our local FAA office and was told that I may have to wait as long as two weeks before they could send someone out.



    Yeah, two weeks was okay.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  3. #3
    Scooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    65
    I am in the process of setting up an appointment with Brian Carpenter, principal at Rainbow Aviation and a DAR, to inspect my AMD CH601XLi SLSA and to help me with the paperwork to convert it to an ELSA. Carol Carpenter quoted me roughly $450 for the service.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,609
    I believe it depends on location and who you know. A friend told me when he had his airplane inspected the DAR only wanted gas money for doing it. The DAR had to travel an hour or more to get to him.

  5. #5
    cub builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Central AR
    Posts
    456
    DARs are independent contractors, so they charge what they consider to be a reasonable rate for their time. It's not fixed by the FAA. Most also charge travel time. I've never heard of them doing inspections for "cost", but that doesn't mean the program doesn't or didn't exist.

    Also, the FSDO is supposed to do the inspections for free, but most FSDOs will tell you they are far too busy and will either schedule you 6 months out, or won't do it at all. However, every once in a while, you can find an Airworthiness Inspector at the FSDO that is willing to come do an inspection. We had one available in our area for a while, but the only way the FSDO would let him have a car to come out here was if he was doing a FAASTeam presentation for a group. So the chapter would schedule him to do a presentation when someone had their plane ready to inspect, and he would do both the same day. That way, the inspection was free. You might contact your local FSDO and see if one of their FAASTeam presenters is also an Airworthiness Inspector and would be willing to do an Airworthiness Inspection for an Experimental if the opportunity was presented. If that's the case, schedule him to do a presentation to a pilot group in the evening, and while he's there...

    -Cub Builder

  6. #6
    gbrasch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    530
    I tried but could not get the FAA to inspect my plane for free, so I found a local DAR to do it, $500 cash for the 30 minute event.
    Glenn Brasch
    KRYN Tucson, Arizona
    2013 RV-9A
    Medevac helicopter pilot (Ret)
    EAA member since 1980
    Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" website.
    www.airportcourtesycars.com
    Volunteer Mentor www.SoAZTeenAviation.org

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by gbrasch View Post
    I tried but could not get the FAA to inspect my plane for free, so I found a local DAR to do it, $500 cash for the 30 minute event.
    How in Cthulhu's name can anyone determine if an EAB aircraft is in a condition for safe operation (which, to my mind, is what the DAR/FSDO rep needs to be able to do to issue an AC) in two hours (which is what it took the two FSDO guys to do my inspection in 2002) much less 30 minutes?

    If I was a DAR (which I tried to apply to be a year or two ago, but they were in the process of changing their process, so it never went through) I would treat an AC inspection as if it were a Condition Inspection, and it would take 8 - 12 hours, minimum for the type of planes on which I work (canards, mostly). But that's just me, obviously...

  8. #8
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    KDCU
    Posts
    567
    I've built three aircraft that required a special airworthiness certificate and none of the actual inspections took more than thirty minutes. The remainder of the visit was devoted to paperwork which took longer than the inspection.

    The DAR is not expected to perform a condition inspection, the builder must endorse the log book stating the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation prior to the DAR visit. The FAA/DAR visit is to catch gross malpractice by the builder and to assure all paperwork is correct. DARs have told me that they can tell within five minutes of arrival whether or not the aircraft will be a candidate for a certificate. If the builder has his act together and there are no obvious defects the DAR will be willing to conduct the visit in a prompt manner.

    I don't think many builders would be willing to subject themselves to a twelve hour DAR visit, much less pay for that much labor!
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 08-20-2016 at 04:07 PM.
    Sam Buchanan
    The RV Journal RV-6 build log
    Fokker D.VII semi-replica build log

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    I've built three aircraft that required a special airworthiness certificate and none of the actual inspections took more than thirty minutes. The remainder of the visit was devoted to paperwork which took longer than the inspection.
    I don't doubt that for a second. I have done Pre-Buy examinations on aircraft that shouldn't have been given an AC, even if the inspector never got within 20 ft. of the airplane. It's obvious they never did even the least amount of rudimentary checking to determine whether an AC should have been granted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    The DAR is not expected to perform a condition inspection, the builder must endorse the log book stating the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation prior to the DAR visit.
    That is true. However, here's what 8130.2H, section 460(g)(4) says the inspector is supposed to do:

    g. Aircraft Inspection. The FAA must arrange with the applicant to make the aircraft available for inspection to determine, at a minimum, the following:
    .
    .
    (4) The flight control system, engine(s), propeller(s), pitot static system, and associated instruments operate properly.

    Now, this certainly isn't a CI level requirement - I agree. But it's the MINIMUM, not the maximum that the inspector is supposed to do, and you cannot do this in 30 minutes, or even a couple of hours, in my opinion. Operating "properly", in my view, is somewhat of a proxy for "condition for safe operation".

    Not to mention that there eight items in the list - this is only one of them. The rest would take a fair while to accomplish as well, if done correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    The FAA/DAR visit is to catch gross malpractice by the builder and to assure all paperwork is correct. DARs have told me that they can tell within five minutes of arrival whether or not the aircraft will be a candidate for a certificate. If the builder has his act together and there are no obvious defects the DAR will be willing to conduct the visit in a prompt manner.
    I would agree that there are planes which will be obvious rejects within the first 5 minutes. But there will be planes that will look OK from 10 ft. away and have serious and severe safety issues - I've seen many in the CI's and PB's that I've done (about 80 CI's/PB's in the past 4 years). Without a good examination that cannot be done in 30 minutes, these things won't be found. I think that limiting the DAR to only needing to find "gross malpractice" is leaving a lot on the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    I don't think many builders would be willing to subject themselves to a twelve hour DAR visit, much less pay for that much labor!
    Probably not, but if someone's willing to pay $400 - $500 for someone to pencil whip some paperwork and wander around the plane once or twice, $900 for a CI equivalent level inspection doesn't seem too crazy.

    But I'm not a DAR (yet), and this is just my $0.02.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    963
    The truth is that the network of builders and DAR's is small enough that builders have a sense of the thorough, lax, good, and bad inspectors who serve their area.

    I know of one local inspector who effectively pats the prospective airplane on the spinner, fills out the paperwork, then sprints off to deposit the check.

    I know of another local inspector who's pretty much guaranteed to spend 2-3 hours looking inside inspection panels, checking for wiring or plumbing issues, and pointing out any other discrepancies that could cause practical (safety) or regulatory problems.

    Those two guys charge the same amount. Which one do you want looking at your airplane? You'd be surprised at how much business the "check casher" gets.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •