Looking for opinions.....

[ssmdive]

1. Budget < $40,000+/-
2. i would like to have something than can do easy acro, I always enjoyed that, but it is not a necessity.
3. Luggage, load carrying is not as significant as the primary purpose is local pleasure flying.
4. I have to plead ignorance about 2 strokes, my opinion is based completely on what little I have read on the internet which seems to me to show them as unreliable.
5. Zenith ch-650 and the Vans RV-12. The issue with the the latter is that I think I would be hard pressed to complete the plane for less than twice my budget and I know the zenith would be better but still stretch my funds beyond what I hoped.
Rick

1. 40K is a good budget. You would be hard pressed to *build* almost anything and not hit or easily exceed that amount. You can go to "Barnstomers" and click "Browse ads" and then on the far right run down the list and click on "Light Sport". You will find a bunch of LSA aircraft for sale for under 40K. For example, this one looks pretty good at a glance, IMO http://www.barnstormers.com/classifi...7+Rans+S7.html

I have a buddy with a Rans 6 and he loves it.

Here is another example: http://www.barnstormers.com/classifi...AC+601+HD.html

I have a buddy building one and liked the way it flew.

You could go with the classic Cub, although as soon as it is painted yellow the price jumps 5,000 (just saying that Cubs are overpriced for what they deliver).

2. Acro makes it a bit more difficult. LSA aerobatic is not a gigantic market. I think the Rans S10 fits, but I have no experience with it. There is the F12 Comet, but that will not make your budget.

3. Almost any plane will meet that point. But planes like my old Challenger II had no place for a person AND luggage since it had a gas tank where some people put luggage.

4. Two strokes..... I share your opinion of them. I had one, didn't like it. I put 113 hours on it and was continually having to mess with it and had two significant issues with it. I have 600+ hours on 4 strokes with fewer issues than I had in the 113.

5. Both good choices... Building either will bust your budget. You can buy a 650 for 40Kish, but I don't think you are going to find an RV-12 for that budget.

These are all just my opinions and thoughts... In the end you are going to have to fly several planes before you really decide on a type. And then you are going to have to look at several before you find the one that speaks to you.....

Good luck

[wbecker319]

I have owned a T Craft, and I have flown Cubs, a Champ, a Chief and several Luscomes.
Some comments random thoughts on each:
The T Craft does not have the wood formers that are in the fuselage of the Champ and Chief.
The Cub is over priced, and very slow, also very fun, has a stick.
The champ is tandem seating, which I like, especially if you will be mostly flying alone. And has a stick.
The Luscombe is the fastest, and has a stick, but requires much better tailwheel skills than the others.
Remember there is a LOT of maintenance the owner can do him self, read FAR 43Appendix A section (C).
Bill B

[Byron J. Covey]

For that budget, I would look for a solid 7-ECA with metal spars. It flies much better than any of the others, is easier to enter / exit, is more comfortable, if in good condition is safe, and legal, for basic aerobatics.

If you want to stick with one of the old planes, a clipped wing Taylorcraft with at least a C-90 would be first choice, followed by a 7-Series. Many people like Cubs, and they are great for summer flying with the door open, but the handling is terrible, and the front seat is difficult for a tall or older person to get into.


BJC

[1600vw]

All things are relative - a "bear on the ground" will mean nothing to a pilot who gains experience in it, as he will just take the attention needed as rote after awhile.

In the certified world, I just fell in love with the Champ. There's something about its looks, its feel, and over all presentation in flight that just felt right to me from the first time I sat in one.

I have some experience in this area. I owned an airplane that was a bear on the ground. I ground looped her so many times I got tired of counting. Flying her was simple. I sold her after I tamed her. But she still made me nervous when coming in to land. I like to fly just to get into the air and relax. Nothing about landing this airplane was relaxing. The airplane I fly today is so relaxing to fly, such fun. Never has she ever thought about ground looping in almost 6 years of flying her. I will not mention either of these airplanes for they both are single seat and not what you are looking for.

Yes my airplane is female. I treat her with the same respect and soft hand that I treat my loving wife.

1600vw....Tony

P.S. My point: If you have an airplane that makes you nervous, I found you will start flying less and less. If you have one that makes you relaxed or are relaxed flying. You will be flying all the time. I lived this.

[wyoranch]

I have some experience in this area. I owned an airplane that was a bear on the ground. I ground looped her so many times I got tired of counting. Flying her was simple. I sold her after I tamed her. But she still made me nervous when coming in to land. I like to fly just to get into the air and relax. Nothing about landing this airplane was relaxing. The airplane I fly today is so relaxing to fly, such fun. Never has she ever thought about ground looping in almost 6 years of flying her. I will not mention either of these airplanes for they both are single seat and not what you are looking for.

Yes my airplane is female. I treat her with the same respect and soft hand that I treat my loving wife.

1600vw....Tony

P.S. My point: If you have an airplane that makes you nervous, I found you will start flying less and less. If you have one that makes you relaxed or are relaxed flying. You will be flying all the time. I lived this.

That is exactly what I want to avoid. Flying is fun, it should not be the source of a stroke every time you take off. Thank you for your thoughts.
Rick

[Floatsflyer]

P.S. My point: If you have an airplane that makes you nervous, I found you will start flying less and less. If you have one that makes you relaxed or are relaxed flying. You will be flying all the time. I lived this.

So true, true, true! Anxiety, nervousness, distress, tenseness, worry, angst, uneasiness has no good place in flying a particular type or types of aircraft or avionics. Your flying must be joyous and fun and exciting. If it isn't, your time in that plane will come to an abrupt halt.

[Frank Giger]

Yes my airplane is female. I treat her with the same respect and soft hand that I treat my loving wife.

I'm a bit of an animist myself, which causes my wife no end of amusement.

She asked me if I was going to name my aircraft one day as I was nearing completion.

"Yep."

"What are you going to name it?"

"Either Babette or Bruno. I won't know what it is until I take it up in the air. It might be a Bruno that needs to be shown who is the Alpha Male with some grunting and trouble; then again it might be the stereotypical French girl - a little love, a few mild habits that need attention, and some mischief. I'll find out."

She turned out to be a Babette - a little bit of trouble getting her started up into the air and pure joy after that.

[Spezioman]

I suppose it depends on your skill and or/experience or lack of as regards T-craft or Luscombe . If you don't have the skill then you have to pay your dues and get training.
Most of my 800tt is in tail draggers including a Pitts, L19, Starduster 2, Spezio and now a Acroduster 2. While I guess I'm fairly skilled I still choose my days and don't push my self imposed limits on cross wind. I also fly off a 200' wide X 2000' grass strip.

Bottom line, I can easily handle a 15-20 mph x-wind in the Acroduster on grass. My limit would be lower with any lighter wing loaded aircraft like a T-craft or cub especially on hard surface. With any new to me aircraft I would start out with calm conditions and work my way up to more wind. Even though most would think the Pitts most demanding, I found the O1D(L19) Bird Dog the most demanding aircraft I've flown. I flew it in a military flying club and flew it a lot and became fairly well skilled but it would bite hard if you got sloppy. Marcia and I took it on a poker run one very windy day and I think I used more than the available runway width at three of five airports......lucky I didn't hit anything. Turned out the tailwheel needed a rebuilt but I was too stupid to know about such things back then. It didn't get rebuilt until our high time CFI/Army pilot almost lost it....

I've never owned a T-craft but I spent some time looking for the right one twice. I just never found the one I wanted at the time. It would be my first choice for a certified aircraft.

Also a lot depends on if you have a good mechanic/IA handy and if you have a "relationship" with him. Personally I find having a E-AB with repairman certificate the perfect solution but one must again pay their dues and build an airplane. There isn't any free lunch in aviation. You might think so but you will pay in the end.

Yes, as said before the T-craft demands speed control to land correctly. Any airplane does but the t-craft will get your attention if too fast with a crosswind for sure. I haven't flown any purpose built LSA's but I suspect they all are kite like in even moderate wind. One must learn to fly them all the way to the hangar/tiedown.

Jack

[flyrgreen]

A few replies have missed a bit in regards to E/AB and maintenance-- you do not need need to be the builder to do maintenance on your experimental. In fact ANYONE can do the work on your E/AB, regardless of their status as a mechanic! This of course is a major money-saver. Experimentals can be either Light Sport qualified or not, but that is a licensing issue about whether you need a Medical & PPL or not; maintenance is not tied to E/AB being flown as LSA or not.

Where the confusion comes from is regarding S-LSA. These are aircraft purpose-built for LSA category, usually sold as a kit or ready-to-fly from the factory. The original builder can perform all maintenance, without an A&P cert. Only an A&P or IA can "annual" the plane. HOWEVER, if you purchase a used S-LSA, you can take a 120-hour course to become legal for all maintenance and annual inspection on your S-SLA.

[rwanttaja]

A few replies have missed a bit in regards to E/AB and maintenance-- you do not need need to be the builder to do maintenance on your experimental. In fact ANYONE can do the work on your E/AB, regardless of their status as a mechanic! This of course is a major money-saver. Experimentals can be either Light Sport qualified or not, but that is a licensing issue about whether you need a Medical & PPL or not; maintenance is not tied to E/AB being flown as LSA or not.

Where the confusion comes from is regarding S-LSA. These are aircraft purpose-built for LSA category, usually sold as a kit or ready-to-fly from the factory. The original builder can perform all maintenance, without an A&P cert. Only an A&P or IA can "annual" the plane. HOWEVER, if you purchase a used S-LSA, you can take a 120-hour course to become legal for all maintenance and annual inspection on your S-SLA.

Ummmm... well, you're slightly off.

Any aircraft certified as Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) or Special Light Sport (S-LSA) can receive its annual condition inspection from an A&P or a person with a Light Sport - Maintenance Repairman certificate. The Light Sport Maintenance Repairman Certificate takes a 120-hour course. The A&P doesn't need IA status, but of course it's not a problem if he or she has it.

If you own an Experimental Light Sport Airplane, you have the option of taking a 16-hour course and earning a Light Sport-Inspection Repairman Certificate. This authorizes you to perform the annual condition inspection on any Experimental Light Sport Aircraft that you own. Once you sell that airplane, you can no longer perform the inspections on it. But if you buy a new ELSA, you can inspect it without re-taking the course.

Ron Wanttaja