Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Full run-up?

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NW FL
    Posts
    356
    Lets parse the question. "Run up" is kind of vague. Lets ask "Do you run the full checklist or the alternate checklist?" Example: the kid brother of a friend made an intermediate stop 30 miles short of destination in a Barron to drop off one passenger. He was in a big hurry and no checklist. He made a fast turn onto the active while pushing the throttles open. Intersection T.O. Rotated early due to less than full runway. It was then that he realized he was still on AUX tanks (they were pretty low). Number one quit while rotating. And everyone here knows why. Whats amazing is everyone lived. Barron destroyed.

  2. #12
    Jim Hann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ballwin, Missouri, United States
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Aulik View Post
    Below is the new bi-weekly question:

    If you land and turn off your engine for just 5 minutes, would you still do your full run-up before takeoff? What if you did not shu
    t down at all? Would you still do your full run-up and why?
    Spent two years flying Barons and Aerostars in Part 135 frieght. Did a run up at the beginning of the night and if I changed airplanes during the night. Otherwise, didn't bother again. Now, this does not mean I didn't use the checklist. Checklist is used every time! I do basically the same thing with my Pacer.

    If I add gas, yes I check for water. Again, checklist is used every time!

    Jim
    (Yep, I'm expecting flames on this one!)
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
    Vintage 722607
    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    FA40
    Posts
    704
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hann View Post
    Spent two years flying Barons and Aerostars in Part 135 frieght. Did a run up at the beginning of the night and if I changed airplanes during the night. Otherwise, didn't bother again. Now, this does not mean I didn't use the checklist. Checklist is used every time! I do basically the same thing with my Pacer.

    If I add gas, yes I check for water. Again, checklist is used every time!

    Jim
    (Yep, I'm expecting flames on this one!)
    You may get flamed, but you were doing what most working professional aviators do. Risk management and making a living. I did it too.

  4. #14
    Jim Hann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ballwin, Missouri, United States
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    You may get flamed, but you were doing what most working professional aviators do. Risk management and making a living. I did it too.
    Thanks, I only had two single engine landings in those years and no single engine takeoffs. Both shutdowns were control cable failures (one each throttle and mixture) not engine problems. I loved both airplanes but I don't miss making a living in recips!

    Jim
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
    Vintage 722607
    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  5. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,503
    Last year this happened to a crop duster in our area.

    He was out working all day. He had come in to fill up with chemicals around 10 times. On his last fill up he turns and burns. As he gets passed the half way point he is not making speed. He starts dumping. He lifts off right at the end of the runway. But he is just inches over the corn. He is still dumping. He gets to the tree line and must turn for he can not get over the tree's. He spins her in and rolls her into a ball. This pilot wrote an article about this accident.

    He said she would not make full power. Well she was running full power for it was a turbine, but something happened to the adjustable prop. It was not adjusting and he could not get any speed out of her. When I heard and saw this airplane in a ball, I wondered if he ever did full power run up's or did he always turn and burn so to speak.

    I happened to drive by this man's place and saw this airplane in a ball. I was with an A&P friend who is also a PP. He took the number down or what we could see of it and he found this article the pilot wrote about this accident. He called me and read it to me and that was what he wrote or how he explained what happened. The airplane was a ball, but the cockpit was in tact and he did not get hurt. Those things are built like tanks I tell you.
    Last edited by 1600vw; 06-27-2016 at 05:49 AM.

  6. #16
    Jim Hann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ballwin, Missouri, United States
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    ... I wondered if he ever did full power run up's or did he always turn and burn so to speak.
    Do you have a way to find the NTSB report on this accident? I'd love to know if he had even shut down or if he hot loaded.

    After 19 years of flying turbines, both jet and turboprop, I can say I have only done a "full power" run up once or twice and I know for sure one of them wasn't when I was going flying. Depending on the system, you may not find a fault in a controllable/constant speed propeller during a run up. On the Garrett TPE331-14 (turboprop) powered airliner I flew we were required to do a full power takeoff once a day, usually the first takeoff of the day.

    Only once did I not make torque, and we ended up canceling the revenue flight and ferrying the airplane back to the hub for maintenance. Why? Because we still had enough power to get a ferry permit, IIRC (its been 17 years) we made 87% of the 96% or so target torque. Yes, like a turbocharged piston we didn't "firewall" it.

    Another problem a different day. Engines at 100% RPM, rolled on the runway mid afternoon for the next takeoff (had flown a couple legs in the same airplane) and we could only get 17% torque at 100% RPM. Yep, we left the airplane there and deadheaded out, she was broke hard. New fuel control and a complete rerigging of the power controls and she was fine.

    My point is that a "full power" run up means different things on different airplanes. Turbines aren't harder, actually they are MUCH easier, but they are different.

    Never did a full power run up on a jet.

    I do a normal run up on my Pacer first flight of the day and when I'm concerned (usually that means I've left the airplane unattended, like eating lunch or taking a nap in the lounge.)
    Jim Hann
    EAA 276294 Lifetime
    Vintage 722607
    1957 Piper PA-22/20 "Super Pacer"
    Chapter 32 member www.eaa32.org
    www.mykitlog.com/LinerDrivr
    Fly Baby/Hevle Classic Tandem


  7. #17

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hann View Post

    My point is that a "full power" run up means different things on different airplanes. Turbines aren't harder, actually they are MUCH easier, but they are different.

    =====
    Jim,
    I never do a full power runup on any plane unless specifically required for maintenance which is rare. It's hard on the engine and picks up a lot of dirt.

    As for a piston sunup, I do ONE the first flight of the day and only interested in two things..... the props will feather and the mag is not totally dead. Overall, ground run ups aren't a really good check. Prior to landing I do a LOP high power mag check, which is probably the best check for the mags.

    As for a checklist and flows, I could argue to do them religiously. And there's MANY parameters that will keep one safe. A power check on the initial roll is in order.... getting the power desired and the performance. We time all takeoffs so we know if power is an issue at a point, and if the runway is short, there's an abort point set in advance.

    Lots of ways to do it.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    1,914
    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    On his last fill up he turns and burns. As he gets passed the half way point he is not making speed. He starts dumping. He lifts off right at the end of the runway.
    My question to the pilot would be "Did you ever consider aborting the takeoff?"

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    My question to the pilot would be "Did you ever consider aborting the takeoff?"
    ABSOLUTELY!
    I could argue to have and abort point on every takeoff. Whatever you call it and define it, it should be a point at which you should continue or go. Of course, if it's a single engine that point may be long after takeoff.

    One should also have "checks" during the takeoff roll.... engine parameters, acceleration, speed check, etc., and at any point if those are not up to normal, an abort should be executed. And, if it's a short field, there should be a point on the runway where you assure that you have the performance to continue. I could argue to have 80% of the speed at the halfway point.

  10. #20
    Run-up's are at the discretion of the PIC.
    Some pilot perform their run-up at this first flight of the day, some do it prior to shutdown for any last minute write ups, some do it every leg, and of course there are always those pilot out there who just neglect to do it at all or ever. Yes there are checklist in place but there is no set limitation to how many times you need to do a run-up. If it makes you feel comfortable and more safe then by all means do it as often as you like. I think though with time you will get to know your aircraft and yourself as a pilot you will develop a good "feel" and say "you know my aircraft has had some engine trouble in the past I think I will run-up a couple times today" or "I have a pretty reliable engine on my aircraft and have never had a problem I feel COMFORTABLE with a run-up on the first flight of the day."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •