Poll -- Young Eagles Background Security Checks

[Glory Aulik]

I'm stepping in here to remind everyone of the EAA Forum rules: posting rude, disrespectful, or being invasive of a person’s privacy is not allowed, and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

For reference:
4. Do not post or link anything knowingly false and/or defamatory, libelous, inaccurate, rude, racist, disrespectful, abusive, harassing, threatening, obscene, profane, racially or ethnically offensive, invasive of a person's privacy, or that otherwise violates pertinent laws

5. Don't antagonize, harass or attack others. Personal attacks are not tolerated. Challenge points of view and opinions, but do so thoughtfully and respectfully... without insults. People who continually or repeatedly provoke or encourage arguments and hostile feelings will be banned from the forums.

6. Respect is the name of the game. Please refrain from inflammatory and defamatory comments as well as flaming, taunting, and general disrespect. Allow people to have their opinion. Don't just tell them they're wrong. Do not make uninvited remarks about typos, duplicate posts, posting styles, etc.

7. Criticism must be respectful, constructive and positive. Opinions must be clearly stated as opinions and worded in a way so readers are unlikely to understand the post as presenting facts. Facts must be accurate and relevant to the topic or thread. Full disclosure of relationships to organizations / products / services mentioned or their competitors and affiliated organizations is required.

[Jim Rosenow]

Tom-

your point is made, but although you can legally do some things, they may not be appropriate. I would urge you to redact the private information such as address, etc. if you insist on keeping the above post.

ted

Ted-
Can I assume we agree that it's equally inappropriate for the government to post the referenced info to a public web site? Just sayin.....

Jim

[Floatsflyer]

Tom-

your point is made, but although you can legally do some things, they may not be appropriate. I would urge you to redact the private information such as address, etc. if you insist on keeping the above post.

ted

Sorry Ted, you're wrong to say that Tom Bush should redact "private information...". IT'S NOT PRIVATE ANY LONGER WHEN IT'S ON A PUBLIC WEBSITE.

[TedK]

Ted-
Can I assume we agree that it's equally inappropriate for the government to post the referenced info to a public web site? Just sayin.....

Jim

Jim- please don't ask me to defend the government. Two wrongs don't make a right. The government does what it is legally required to do, and there is usually little room for moral or ethical discretion when the government's own lawyers are in the room. (Sad, but that is my experience with 25 years inside and 15 years working alongside the govt. I met a USCG Lawyer the other day who shocked me with her inclusion of legal, moral and ethical issues in her calculus...a new norm? I can only hope)

Here, in EAA, I would hope that we play by Oshkosh Rule's and exceed the legal minimum with courtesy and consideration. I try, and I think most here on this board, to play by the golden rule.

[Floatsflyer]

[SIZE=2][FONT=arial]I'm stepping in here to remind everyone of the EAA Forum rules: posting rude, disrespectful, or being invasive of a person’s privacy is not allowed, and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Glory,

You posted this reminder in response to Tom Bush posting a number of websites about Mark van Wyk. You even underlined the part of "invasive of a person's privacy" for emphasis as not being allowed. I take exception to you doing this in this instance. This was not at all necessary or correct to do as Tom was neither invading Mark's privacy nor invasive of his privacy. Neither was Tom acting in a malicious or discrediting manner whatsoever. And furthermore there is nothing legally, morally or ethically reprehensible about disclosing any of this stuff-- it's already out there on the Internet to be accessed and consumed by anyone wishing to.

Tom posted Mark's information on Facebook, LinkedIn, South County Pilots, and a letter to the editor of the Los Banco Enterprise. Even more importantly than what I've said in the above paragraph, do I really need to remind you or others that Mark, of his own free will, chose to share all this information and his opinion on these internet sites just like he has now chosen of his own free will to share his information including his SSN for the new YE policy.

The FAA pilot certificate info is of a public nature on a public site. Tom could have gone even further and posted Mark's aircraft ownership info from the, once again, public FAA civil aircraft registry. All this FAA info has been public and accessible for many, many, many decades. Just because it's now on a medium called the Internet doesn't mean it's any less public.

[Mark van Wyk]

So Mark, is this you?
---snip ---
I got this information using only your name and a whopping 5 minutes of time on Google and the FAA public website. Even plugged your name into the national sex offender database in that time and am happy to report you're not on it .

---Snip---
Good day, Sir!

Wow, that was really dumb and immature -- "Sir" -- particularly from a guy who posts his own full name: Tom Bush -- and lists the following in a previous post:

"My name is Tom Bush. I'm a retired Navy commander (F-14 and F/A-18 background), and currently fly the A320 for UAL. I live with my family at the Dry Creek Airport in Cypress, TX (TS07), and serve as President and Airport Manager of this 35+ homesite private facility. Along with my family and friends, I take great enjoyment from all things aviation. "

It didn't take me long to Google YOUR Facebook page, LinkedIn page, and other personal information. Your point is? In case you haven't been paying attention, Tom, EAA has dropped the requirement to provide Social Security Number.

[cub builder]

Hmm. Seems to me this thread belongs under the NTSB's most wanted for "Loss of Control"

[TomBush]

Wow, that was really dumb and immature -- "Sir" -- particularly from a guy who posts his own full name: Tom Bush -- and lists the following in a previous post:

"My name is Tom Bush. I'm a retired Navy commander (F-14 and F/A-18 background), and currently fly the A320 for UAL. I live with my family at the Dry Creek Airport in Cypress, TX (TS07), and serve as President and Airport Manager of this 35+ homesite private facility. Along with my family and friends, I take great enjoyment from all things aviation. "

It didn't take me long to Google YOUR Facebook page, LinkedIn page, and other personal information. Your point is? In case you haven't been paying attention, Tom, EAA has dropped the requirement to provide Social Security Number.

That's interesting, Mark, because I don't have a FB page, and never have. LinkedIn? Yes. FB? No. . .

As stated, the point of my exercise was / is not to poke you in the eye, but to elucidate the fact that there is so much readily-available information out there already that EAA - if it is that hell bent on doing background checks on its YE pilots - could employ a staff of one and do what I did with your info in a matter of minutes per person - and they wouldn't even have to know it!

Once again; it's obvious you're not happy about my post, but I don't apologize for it because you can't have it both ways. Here you are parroting EAAs stance that we must all line up like good sheeple and submit to training and background checks, but you're obviously not happy with your own info being out there - info that only represents a fraction of what EAA is asking us for, even sans the SSN requirement.

And then I go back to my point about the entire program being in(s)ane, insulting, and unnecessary. I'd call it an 'opinion' if it were just me who thinks this is the case, but when it is shared by hundreds of other YE pilots I can't help but come to the conclusion that the fat lady just ain't gonna sing on this one. . . The kids won't necessarily suffer, as just about all of us will continue to fly them like we always have. The EAA and YE program itself will suffer, however, if this program is allowed to live in ANY fashion. Nothing but its complete withdrawal will satisfy me and the majority of people I've spoken with. It is a solution in search of a problem.

[Glory Aulik]

Glory,

You posted this reminder in response to Tom Bush posting a number of websites about Mark van Wyk. You even underlined the part of "invasive of a person's privacy" for emphasis as not being allowed. I take exception to you doing this in this instance. This was not at all necessary or correct to do as Tom was neither invading Mark's privacy nor invasive of his privacy. Neither was Tom acting in a malicious or discrediting manner whatsoever. And furthermore there is nothing legally, morally or ethically reprehensible about disclosing any of this stuff-- it's already out there on the Internet to be accessed and consumed by anyone wishing to.

Tom posted Mark's information on Facebook, LinkedIn, South County Pilots, and a letter to the editor of the Los Banco Enterprise. Even more importantly than what I've said in the above paragraph, do I really need to remind you or others that Mark, of his own free will, chose to share all this information and his opinion on these internet sites just like he has now chosen of his own free will to share his information including his SSN for the new YE policy.

The FAA pilot certificate info is of a public nature on a public site. Tom could have gone even further and posted Mark's aircraft ownership info from the, once again, public FAA civil aircraft registry. All this FAA info has been public and accessible for many, many, many decades. Just because it's now on a medium called the Internet doesn't mean it's any less public.

The information should not be reinstated on the Forums regardless of whether it came from a public domain. The post, was as i stated, rude, disrespectful, invasive, and a personal attack. Non of which will be tolerated on the EAA Forums.

Precautions will be taken if such disrespectful posts continue.

[TedK]

Hmm. Seems to me this thread belongs under the NTSB's most wanted for "Loss of Control"

ROTFL !

Well played.

Hopefully after a good chuckle we can pull together on this.