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Thread: Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

  1. #741
    EAA Staff
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    Quote Originally Posted by krw920 View Post
    There in lies the problem, nobody from senior leadership has stepped up to answer questions directly, almost like they are hiding behind lower level management to take the heat. Where is "senior" legal counsel? Why isn't that person fielding questions on what the legalities of this policy are?
    We had two people in senior leadership moderate the webinar on Monday night, and answered questions directly for over an hour. I'm answering the questions that I know, and getting feedback from senior leadership on things I don't know. If you have specific questions, we are always encouraging our members to contact us directly and have a conversation. I think that is probably the best way to get the answers you're seeking.

    Thanks,
    Eric
    Eric Cernjar, EAA # 1133654
    Membership Marketing Manager

  2. #742

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    I attended the webinar and most of my questions were not answered. Many were repeats. Some answers were not not based on anything in writing. In addition for grins I took the course and BC and have very serious doubts about the BC and the wording.

  3. #743

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    My question may have gotten lost in the recent flurry of posts. I am not trying to be a troll, and really am being serious about my inquiry based on the responses from my chapter and many of the other chapters represented here. I am asking on the public forum versus one on one because I know there are others that are interested in the answers.

    Would one of the EAA staff be willing to bring this to senior management and find out an answer for us (or ask one of them to come on here and reply directly)?

    My basic query is that if the background check policy results in not having enough members for a Chapter, or a number of Chapters, to be able to continue doing youth programs and/or YE, would that be acceptable to EAA National?

    Is there a point, based on member participation, where EAA National would ever consider redesigning the YPP, specifically to remove the background check?

    Thank you,

    -Dj

  4. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by deej View Post
    My question may have gotten lost in the recent flurry of posts. I am not trying to be a troll, and really am being serious about my inquiry based on the responses from my chapter and many of the other chapters represented here. I am asking on the public forum versus one on one because I know there are others that are interested in the answers.

    Would one of the EAA staff be willing to bring this to senior management and find out an answer for us (or ask one of them to come on here and reply directly)?

    My basic query is that if the background check policy results in not having enough members for a Chapter, or a number of Chapters, to be able to continue doing youth programs and/or YE, would that be acceptable to EAA National?

    Is there a point, based on member participation, where EAA National would ever consider redesigning the YPP, specifically to remove the background check?

    Thank you,

    -Dj
    Generally I'd say we're absolutely invested in keeping our chapter network strong. In fact I think it's been a long time since we've had such a full staff dedicated to only chapter matters. Based on that, no one would find the closing of chapters (or chapter activities) acceptable.

    Based on what I understand, I do not think the background check will be eliminated. We have a pretty good participation rate in the training/check already, and we're still a month and a half out from the cutoff date. I'd never say never (except in this sentence of course), but I'd say it is unlikely that the check will be removed.

    Hope that helps, and if you have further questions on this again I'd recommend contacting us directly.

    Thanks,
    Eric
    Eric Cernjar, EAA # 1133654
    Membership Marketing Manager

  5. #745

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    Based on that, no one would find the closing of chapters (or chapter activities) acceptable.

    Based on what I understand, I do not think the background check will be eliminated.
    It is the balance that we are trying to figure out. From comments here and locally, we already know that we are going to lose some percentage of member participation because of the new policy, and as a result we are going to lose some youth activities in some of the chapters. My query is really to find out at what point does the one outweigh the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    We have a pretty good participation rate in the training/check already, and we're still a month and a half out from the cutoff date.
    It is true that my question may seem a bit premature. The concerns I have heard expressed are that if we do lose member participation once the new policy goes into effect, we may never get those members back. I figured it was worthwhile asking the question as to what percentage of loss is acceptable to EAA National, since some percentage of loss is inevitable. Would you be willing to pass this query along to senior management?

    I am not sure I agree with your assessment that we have a good participation rate already. We have somewhere on the order of 160,000 EAA members, and only roughly 4000 have done the training/check thus far, which is only a 2.5% participation rate.

    Unfortunately the overall percentages don't tell the whole story, though. In small chapters, even losing one or two members can be enough to make the difference.

    -Dj

  6. #746

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    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by combahee View Post
    "public record information such as, but not limited to: my driving record, judgments, bankruptcy proceedings, evictions, criminal records, etc., from federal, state, and other agencies that maintain such records.

    Authorization
    I hereby authorize procurement of consumer report(s) and investigative consumer report(s) by Company. If hired (or contracted), this authorization shall remain on file and shall serve as ongoing authorization for Company to procure such reports at any time during my employment, contract, or volunteer period. I authorize without reservation, any person, business or agency contacted by the consumer reporting agency to furnish the above-mentioned information."


    While this may be a standard authorization by Americheck I do have misgivings about this. The authorization gives broad permission for information and storage and use of such far beyond what has been reported here and by the EAA.
    How about a comment from EAA?
    It seems unbelievable that senior management would have allowed this “authorization” to pass. Unfortunately this is what we have. We have been trying to get answers, concerning the website, ever since PaulDow posted the subject in January and there will be NO response. It is to irresponsible and reckless for anyone to defend. Jack Pellon tried to defend the site in the eHotline newsletter several times, however this turned out rather badly, and he gave up. Ever since, Mr. Pellon and senior management have been hiding under their desks while sending out their surrogates, who only know what they are told to say, to distract us by changing rules, rewriting laws and putting a band aid here and a band aid there, which causes more confusion than before. This disaster must be repealed.
    And on the same subject we address post #735 by lyleapgmc: “The question was asked during the webinar, “Isit true the Americancheck does not do the actual background checks but forwardsthe information to another entity who does the actual check? The response was in the negative.”
    Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. NotTrue. The response given during the webinar is not true. A total deception. I have thoroughly checked out the websites myself and what PaulDow posted inJanuary is true.
    When you go on americanchecked.com, which looks terrible for security alone, you think you are giving your personal information to them, you are not. When you are ready to enter your private information you are directed to another website. I challenge everyone to thoroughly check out these websites. Use "whois domain search" if possible. All personal information is typed into a mysterious website (8f7.com), which is hiding behind an anonymous registration, which is hiding behind godaddy.com. What are they trying to hide? This anonymous site could be controlled by anyone in the world. Reckless and irresponsible, and EAA totally supports this? No wander they cannot defend it.
    Trafficking in personal and private information is big business today, and we must wander, how much did American Checked pay EAA for to operate this program?
    Last edited by Jkan; 03-16-2016 at 12:46 PM. Reason: spacing

  7. #747
    EAA Staff Bret Steffen's Avatar
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    Dj,

    I appreciate your thoughts on this, and understand where you are coming from.

    EAA did not create the YPP for fun of course, we felt there was no alternative moving forward with the programs we do with youth but to have a protection plan in place. The reality is, whether we like it or not, youth protection policies and programs have some basic tenants that are a part of the process. Background checks and training are two of those. They work. I know not everyone wants to believe that fact, but they do serve the purpose for which they are intended. The policy will be a part of youth programming at EAA moving forward.

    Math is yet another piece of this. We only have 5000 pilots in any given year who fly Young Eagles. This number has been a constant for many years now, so when Eric talks about a good participation rate, we have more than 2,500 pilots who are ready to fly YE under the new rules -- that is 50% of what we typically have fly in a given year and we gain more every day. Frankly with nearly 200,000 members I am always surprised only 5,000 participate in YE, but it has been consistent for years.

    We understand some folks will walk away. We would love it if they would come on back at some point, and I think some of them will. The program is still for the kids, and we owe it to them to make it as safe an experience as possible.

  8. #748

    Join Date
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    161
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    I don't think we're looking at this in terms of what is an acceptable loss.
    Failure of planning on your part. As part of any decision making process, the people that implement the process should look at any repercussions of the policy and balance the expected positive benefits against any negative possibilities. If this was not done, then it was a failure of the leadership.

    If the YE program is reduced to half its current size, is that considered acceptable? Seems like only about 50% of participants have complied with the program requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    I'm doing my best to be responsive to you guys but I am not senior leadership.
    Then maybe Sr Leadership should start answering. If I am smart enough to create a username and hack on a computer, then the executive leadership should be able to figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    If you have specific questions, we are always encouraging our members to contact us directly and have a conversation.
    Took two months to get a half answer when I sent a question and it was only when that was pointed out in a public forum. I NEVER GOT AN EMAIL RESPONSE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cernjar View Post
    but I'd say it is unlikely that the check will be removed.
    And it is unlikely that I will participate. Still waiting on what EXACTLY the EAA will do if my information is lost by you or your vendor?

    I bought the plane. I pay the insurance. I pay for the maintenance. I pay for the gas. I pay for my medical. I take time off work. Instead of making it harder and more intrusive to DONATE my time and money, the EAA should be trying to make it easier to participate and not putting barriers to the process up.
    1996 Quad City Challenger CWS w/503 - Sold
    1974 7ECA Citabria - Sold
    1986 Pitts S1S

  9. #749

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    15
    Quote Originally Posted by combahee View Post
    "public record information such as, but not limited to: my driving record, judgments, bankruptcy proceedings, evictions, criminal records, etc., from federal, state, and other agencies that maintain such records.

    Authorization
    I hereby authorize procurement of consumer report(s) and investigative consumer report(s) by Company. If hired (or contracted), this authorization shall remain on file and shall serve as ongoing authorization for Company to procure such reports at any time during my employment, contract, or volunteer period. I authorize without reservation, any person, business or agency contacted by the consumer reporting agency to furnish the above-mentioned information."


    While this may be a standard authorization by Americheck I do have misgivings about this. The authorization gives broad permission for information and storage and use of such far beyond what has been reported here and by the EAA.
    How about a comment from EAA?
    (1) The fact that you have to give explicit permission for them to collect the data proves in and of itself that at least SOME of the data they are compiling IS NOT from "public" (i.e. open-access) sources. Yet more inference that all is not as it seems with the supposedly reputable data-mining operation.

    (2) Only a VERY NAIVE individual would voluntarily give such a company open-ended permission to continually retrieve personal data and compile it for whatever uses that company sees fit.

    (3) My personal opinion is that no one should sign such an agreement without an accompanying written contract between that individual and the data collection company itself GUARANTEEING secure storage of, EXCLUSIVE access to, and severe monetary penalties in the event of theft / unauthorized access of, the application data AND THE RESULTING COMPILED INFORMATION FILE(S). As any legal expert will tell you, mere promises and assurances are, for the most part, not legally binding. No "consideration" = no contract. Also, if it is not in writing with original signatures, it is not true. (Some states, but not all, allow for enforcement of verbal contracts, but the legal language is narrowly constructed, strictly scrutinized, and without witness to the actual uttering by the principal parties, almost entirely unenforceable.) None of the parties involved in this data-mining operation have given such written obligation to the VOLUNTEERS THEMSELVES.

    (4) As we have seen numerous times in the last two months, EAA will change the terms and conditions as they see fit, without even a moment's notice, without informing the membership before or after the fact, and without opportunity for the members involved to withdraw their permission. To quote from the YPP itself:

    "Experimental Aircraft Association, Inc. (“EAA”) reserves the right to revise this policy in any manner and to be effective at any time, in EAA’s sole discretion.") (http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-e...34624FCAD&_z=z)

    caveat emptor - which is why I quit the YE program and will quit EAA when my current membership expires.

  10. #750

    Join Date
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    All -


    We would like to thank you for the passionate, and meaningful discussion around EAA’s Youth Protection Policy. Feedback from our members, including this thread, has been valuable for us as we’ve worked to simplify the policy. As many of you have already noted, we’ve made the following changes:

    • Removing what many thought was an overly burdensome photography policy. There are now simple guidelines to work with parents when taking photos.
    • No requirement to provide a Social Security Number when completing the background check (it is optional).
    • Simplified requirements for ground volunteers at Young Eagles rallies, to requiring only two-deep leadership that has completed the training and background checks.
    • Elimination of the staff-to-youth ratio for Young Eagles rallies.
    • Clarification on topics such as supervision in an aircraft, individual Young Eagles flights, and record keeping.

    We strongly encourage you to review the three policies. For the complete policy and the latest updates, please visit http://www.eaa.org/youthprotection.


    On March 14, 2016 we hosted a Webinar to clarify why the policy was created, and how it affects each of you as a YE volunteer. If you were unable to attend the Webinar, you can review it here: http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=4802001623001. During the session we’ve addressed many of your questions and have reiterated our position on the importance of the policy.


    If you have further questions, we definitely recommend reading the brief guidance sheet located here:
    http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-e...6c19e7f04.ashx


    We all acknowledge that the Young Eagles program has been safe, and we are invested in making it stay that way. A majority of our volunteers have completed the training and background check.


    With the recent changes to the policy we would like to avoid any misunderstandings or misinformation. Because of this we’ll be locking this thread and encourage everyone to join the conversation in one of the more recent threads, or feel free to contact us directly with remaining comments or questions. http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/about-eaa/contact-us


    Thank you,
    Dennis
    Dennis Jenders, EAA #300475

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