Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

[Marty Santic]

I enter the fray with a bit of trepidation, but I just want to clarify something here. Those helping in the kitchen do not have to do the training or background checks for a YE Rally. That is only for the pilots, YE coordinators and ground crew. I understand that doesn't completely alleviate your concerns, but just wanted to at least take one concern off the table. Thanks, Eric

Eric, it is my hope that any Youth Protection program revision incorporates the knowledge of those that actually plan, implement and conduct activities that involve the youth. At rallies and youth related activities, the "kitchen help" is NOT restricted to a real kitchen in the back of the building but they help with the refreshments, interact with the kids and those that have come to learn about GA. As such, they are required to go thru the background check and training, at least the way I read it. Your comment reinforces my belief that WE really need input from the field to develop a program/policy that works.

[SportsmanFlyer]

I wish someone would organize something like this, a "flashmob" type aviation event where everyone assembles at a non-announced airport, hangs out for the day and leaves. Don't need to insure the event because it wasn't planned. Just happened.

There are such organizations, mostly found on-line, such as this one in the Northeast: http://www.meetup.com/NEPilotsGroup/

[Eric Cernjar]

Eric, it is my hope that any Youth Protection program revision incorporates the knowledge of those that actually plan, implement and conduct activities that involve the youth. At rallies and youth related activities, the "kitchen help" is NOT restricted to a real kitchen in the back of the building but they help with the refreshments, interact with the kids and those that have come to learn about GA. As such, they are required to go thru the background check and training, at least the way I read it. Your comment reinforces my belief that WE really need input from the field to develop a program/policy that works.

I agree that feedback from our dedicated members is required. There definitely was a contingent of members/volunteers consulted during this process, but the feedback from you all has been helpful in making adjustments. I'd say the removal of the SS # requirement is in no small part due to the feedback we received here.

Regarding your specific rallies, it really boils down to how often/how many hours everyone is spending at the rallies to determine if the training/checks are necessary.

Ground crew of all sorts are encouraged to do the training and background check. They would be required to do it if they help out at four or more youth activities in any one calendar year, and/or if anyof those activities lasts four or more hours.

We do have staff available for you to talk to in more detail to determine how to make this work for your chapter. If you want, you can message me directly and I can put you in touch with the right people to make sure we get rid of any uncertainty.

Thanks again,
Eric

[Byron J. Covey]

... There definitely was a contingent of members/volunteers consulted during this process,
...
Eric

Eric:

Can you summarize the input that they provided as the policy was being developed?

Thanks,


BJC

[combahee]

I agree that feedback from our dedicated members is required. There definitely was a contingent of members/volunteers consulted during this process, but the feedback from you all has been helpful in making adjustments.



We do have staff available for you to talk to in more detail to determine how to make this work for your chapter.

Thanks again,
Eric

Eric, obviously HQ is NOT listening. Your job as Membership Marketing Manager is getting harder. First and foremost, the background check is a non starter. How many members, pilots, chapters etc have to post before you guys get it? We will simply not fly YE's, and Chapters and members will not renew under the policy in affect as of now. Period.
The EAA doesn't trust me. Likewise I don't trust the EAA, nor a 3rd party vendor with any of my information. I can just imagine the list they are compiling of those rich pilots for whatever in the future.

[tomkk]

... First and foremost, the background check is a non starter. How many members, pilots, chapters etc have to post before you guys get it? We will simply not fly YE's, and Chapters and members will not renew under the policy in affect as of now. Period. ...

Could be right but not necessarily. There are some that will no longer participate, others will continue to do so. I frankly have no clue how representative the comments here are. As far as I can tell, there's little concern in our chapter.

To tell the honest truth, without the SSN requirement, I don't see the background check as much of a problem as the burdensome paperwork and retention. I can't see the info required for the background check because mine is "Pending" but, as I recall, it doesn't require any info that's not already publicly available in any number of places online already.

This policy isn't terribly different from others I'm familiar with for organizations that deal with minors. The biggest differences I see are: (1) access to background check results is strictly limited to an extremely small group, (2) limited data retention requirements and (3) other organizations normally limit the two person rule to enclosed areas, e.g. classrooms, with doors, etc., not the great outdoors we generally deal with.

[Eric Cernjar]

Eric:

Can you summarize the input that they provided as the policy was being developed?

Thanks,


BJC

I personally cannot, but let me see who I can put you in touch with to discuss this. Have you spoken with anyone in the EAA staff about this over the phone yet? If you could send me a personal message with your contact info (I assume I found your membership using your handle, but just want to confirm), I'll work on getting you the info you're requesting.

Thanks,
Eric

[AcroGimp]

Eric:

Can you summarize the input that they provided as the policy was being developed?

Thanks,


BJC

Byron according to an earlier post from an EAA staffer they reportedly contacted 10 or 12 of the supposedly more active YE chapters, so about 1% of the 1000+ chapters.

And it shows.

This train wreck just continues to fester rather than call a timeout, admit they screwed the pooch, and go back to the drawing board with an intent on actually working with the membership at large in addressing actual risk for the kids, EAA, the Chapters and Members with an actually workable plan that correctly identifies and addresses the actual risks in the least intrusive and non-insulting way possible.

'Gimp

[Byron J. Covey]

I personally cannot, but let me see who I can put you in touch with to discuss this. Have you spoken with anyone in the EAA staff about this over the phone yet? If you could send me a personal message with your contact info (I assume I found your membership using your handle, but just want to confirm), I'll work on getting you the info you're requesting.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric:

Just post it here for all of us to see. That will eliminate the possibility of my miss-stating the information if I post it.

Thank you.


Byron J. Covey
EAA 36946

[Mayhemxpc]

Could be right but not necessarily. There are some that will no longer participate, others will continue to do so. I frankly have no clue how representative the comments here are. As far as I can tell, there's little concern in our chapter.

...

This policy isn't terribly different from others I'm familiar with for organizations that deal with minors. The biggest differences I see are: (1) access to background check results is strictly limited to an extremely small group, (2) limited data retention requirements and (3) other organizations normally limit the two person rule to enclosed areas, e.g. classrooms, with doors, etc., not the great outdoors we generally deal with.

Some pilots will comply, perhaps many, and in fact many (however "many" is defined) have already done so. The question is the effect of those who will drop out of the program. It will certainly affect the capacity for program execution. Even a few dropping out will have some impact.

The argument that we should accept this because others have done so is a classic logical fallacy. (Ad populum.) It is not a valid/rational argument for doing something. Yes, most of the information is already out there. That does not justify exposing the information again -- or justify collecting it even if there were no risk of exposure. Why is this personal information necessary to reasonably preclude misconduct? What specific elements of information are necessary? Can the risk of potential misconduct be managed without collecting this information? What proof/data exists to support requiring that data? Being somewhat familiar with other YPP -- and in particular the BSA, which I believe the model for all of the others -- none of the three differences are any different than other programs, and we have NO assurance that the data collected will be restricted or limited in duration.

As I have said before, I am a big believer in training. Training in this matter can help you avoid unintentionally doing something that would get you in trouble -- and thereby avoid false accusation, help you to spot potential problems around you, and let you know who should be informed of potential impropriety. It is my hypothesis that this should be sufficient. I am, however, open to rational proofs that more is needed to achieve the desired outcome.

The pilots and others who are choosing not to disclose their information are, as far as I can tell, not opting out because they have something to hide, or because they do not want the burden of additional training and filling out a form. They object because they believe this program is wrong.