Having had my identity and my wife's compromised 3 times already by commercial operations and now by the government, forget it. I will stay far away from anything YE.
Having had my identity and my wife's compromised 3 times already by commercial operations and now by the government, forget it. I will stay far away from anything YE.
There is a way for everyone to work this out and win.
I fully understand protecting children.
A simple form with questions as to any criminal background given to the Chapter President. (Same as the Boy Scouts).
Have the YE Coordinator and President take the online course.
At each YE rally the coordinator will brief all the participants, volunteers, pilots etc.
A minimum of one "qualified" supervisor on the ground at all times.
For a one on one the childs parent or guardian must be present or a written permission waiver, with an adult present.
These are simple to execute, protect the EAA and the child, and life will move on.
The contentious points seem to be the background check, hey EAA, we don't work for you, we VOLUNTEER, and the restrictions on volunteers.
I fail to understand how this went through legal, the YE program administrators, the EAA board without any input form those actually flying the kids. Without all of us out there flying, donating our time and aircraft, EAA would not have a program.
Below is my email to Michelle and Brian of YE ..
In general, the Policy and the requirement for the background checks IMO are offensive, especially put under the sauce of "let's keep kids safe": as if we haven't.. Implementation of checks is at best not thought thru well, and at worst incompetent (I have some details in my email Ive sent below).
I like some options outlined above, especially the declarative one (ie, a checklist of sorts one has to fill out) if CYA is indeed that necessary. Another thing is that most of the things BG check will weed out is already weeded out via the FAA's Medical questionnaire, with the enforcement (federal felony for lying on it, is it?) built in.
Le Sigh. I won't get my 100 YEs shirt probably.. but heck, I got my cap and my pinI will still wear them proudly.
---
Michelle, Brian,
(Michelle, we have communicated a number of times in regards of our chapter's YE rallies and other activities).
I have just received the letter about YE's training and background checks. I have completed the training course: I do understand necessity of such things to protect Chapters, EAA, etc. Working for a large company, we have to go thru similar things at our work.
What bugs me a lot is the background check process. The very fact that a non-profit volunteer based organization would require it's paying members to go thru such a thing is unusual, strange, and somewhat offending. The necessity to provide your SS# and other private information is very questionable, especially given my relationship with EAA as a paying member rather than an employee.
What has caused this sudden change in policy, given 25 years of the YE program? Was there a lawsuit? What happened?
I have done a quick research on the background checks' provider, American Checked, and, frankly, even all the other concerns aside, would not be comfortable providing them any of my personal information; not even speaking of SSN, especially in this day and age of ID theft, etc.
Their Privacy Policy is very basic and aside from "we don't talk to anyone and your information is well protected" is leaving a lot of questions open.
Doing a bit more research, I find it even more questionable.
The redirect page for the check is leading to some obscure domain (www04.8f7.com, registered via a domain proxy w/o ANY references to "American Checked", see http://www.whois.com/whois/8f7.com), makes it look like a prime phishing attempt: phishing being a hacking technique (mis)leading victims to submit their private information to a malicious party.
Their SSL Certificate (basically, a thingie that confirms that the website is legit) was issued to BackChecked, LLC in Phoenix, AZ: while on their main website (http://americanchecked.com/) they list themselves as "AmericanChecked, Inc" in Tulsa, OK.
Even assuming they are legitimate, and the domain is indeed theirs, such a configuration via obscure URLs and SSL certificates issued to entities other than named on the main website as they have raises questions about their IT folks' professionalism (to me as a Security Software Architect, frankly, this looks like something done by unprofessional and or careless people). Basically, "if those guys can't set up their web stuff properly, how would I trust them to safeguard my SSN"? To give an aviation analogy; I would never trust a mechanic that consistently forgets to torque and safety wire my prop bolts do my engine overhaul.
Even forgetting all this and assuming their setup was top-notch and I had no issues with them, what happens if they leak? (Even the best do; case in point: NSA). What if an EAA Member's reputation, business, social standing, etc, is damaged due to this background check process? Lack of any formal communication from EAA describing these possibilities and how they will be handled is not adding any confidence.
Bottom line is, in my humble opinion requirements for such background checks would've been reasonable if we were to work for a CIA, FBI, or other similar type agencies. This seems very troubling as a requirement to continue engaging in a weekend, hobby volunteer activity, which YE is for the most of us.
Personally, my participation as an official Young Eagles pilot and coordinator will probably end if the background checks requirements are indeed implemented. I am positive that a vast majority of YE pilots and volunteers would have similar opinions, possibly putting the whole YE program in jeopardy.
I hope this is not how it will end.
I was trusting and went through with it and took the online training and submitted my information for background check. Now you guys have got me worried (slightly), but I'm fairly confident I will have no issues with identity theft.
So remind me again, what is the big deal about someone getting your social security number? A mere 10 years or so ago the private pilot certificate number was your SSN. I remember giving it out routinely on employment applications, etc. It used to be on my driver's license. I've given it to numerous employers over the decades.
What can the Rooskie hacker do with my SSN, anyway?
Well; your name, address, DoB and SSN is pretty much all that's necessary to apply for a credit card, bank account, etc. In addition, these guys will go and proactively solicit information about *you* that you probably wouldn't want to leak... What does show up on the "background check" they run? I don't know.
There are two issues I see with this.
1. Provider vetting @ EAA. I think this is a minor one and could be attributed to possible inexperience. I think EAA could be easily persuaded to change the provider by an uproar of the pilots.
2. The actual "Youth Protection" Policy, and a requirement of the check in itself. I see this as a much bigger issue of intrusion, presumption of guiltiness, and basically all the rest that's wrong with the social climate nowadays. These policy and requirements IMO fall into the same bin as TSA (http://bit.ly/1KtbIbB), Patriot Act as a response to ~3000 deaths (while horrible, a drop in the ocean among other things), CPS harassing parents letting their kids run around the house w/o a leash, etc. To me personally, YE was a breath of fresh air in all the BS we have subjected ourselves to.
This keeps getting worse, and each steps with each of the programs and mentioned here organisations (I unfortunately am one of those transplanted Rooskies so haven't been exposed to much of them as a kid, so only can quote: CAP, Scouts, schools) leads us to a society more and more disconnected from reality (where risks Exist, from the capital "E").
Just discussing this last night with my wife (who originally seemed to have liked the requirement); we made an argument that this is very close to a situation where, when at a hospital just getting a newborn, she's taken away from you into foster care unless you pass a background check.
I don't want our society (which in most aspects I am proud to have been transplanted into) to go in that direction.
Last edited by fidot; 01-21-2016 at 12:24 PM.
SSN on the pilot cert was done by lazy federal bureaucrats instead of making a new number. It was done before identity theft was such a large problem.Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk
The question is what can be done with that, combined with data from other sources? Your birth date is on that check too.
In Connecticut, our sleazy politicians made voting records public information so they can robocall us. Combine a few sources, and you could apply for loans that won't be paid back, file a fake income tax return for a refund, apply for credit cards.
ok, I am in Canada, so it will be interesting to see if this affects the twin COPA for Kids program. I hope not.
Since nobody had raised this option; the parents are already signing off on a liability form that says we are all licensed pilots, we and the aircraft are insured etc.....but that they are acknowledging some risk........why not simply add a line something like, 'your child may be alone in the cockpit with a volunteer pilot, photos will be taken at this event, if you are NOT ok with that, do not allow the child to participate.'
does that not address the issue from the correct end?....the common sense one?
You were never required to use it. The FCC always (at least since 1981 when I was first licensed) allowed you to have a non-SSN number assigned. Most CFIs did this anyhow lest they have their SSN in every student's logbook they ever taught. It was way after people got hinky about SSNs that the FCC mandated you COULD NOT use your SSN any longer (I had the SSN on my certificate but they gave me a new one gratuitously int he 1990s if I recall properly).
I must admit I am surprised at the number of volunteers who are bailing and are apparently perfectly willing to see the demise of Young Eagles over this. It must have taken lots of work and organizing over the years to get YE up and running. There are forms, insurance policies, procedures, etc., set in place requiring many years of hard work. And yet, I see pilot after pilot say they are out. Goodbye and good luck. All of this fuss over a simple background check, not surprising in these tense, litigious times. Pilots willing to see the whole endeavor go bust. Down the tubes.
Wow. Just, wow.
One of my biggest concerns is that there will be so few planes and pilots left in the program, undue pressure will be placed on those willing to fly the dozens of kids lined up for a ride. Most remaining pilots will not be willing to disappoint the kids, and will wind up carrying all the load.
I am sensing a bit of a herd mentality here. One guy says he's bailing, and the mob joins in. Over a SSN? Can't we look for a solution instead of watching the destruction of YE?
Actually, I would like to see every member bail on Young Eagles. Not because I want to see the Young Eagles program die. But instead, to save it from this sort of bureaucratic nonsense. Call it a strike if you wish. But if every YE pilot told the EAA to stuff it unless they drop this silliness, the EAA would have to choose between the pilots and their lawyers. If they want the program to continue, they send out a letter of apology and continue on as they have. It's not the pilots, but the EAA Leadership that is willing to kill the program.
As for me, I have held high level security clearances for my employment for the last 42 years. In return, the Chinese now have more information about me and my family than I could quote off the top of my head. So the EAA wants me to submit the same data to an unknown entity to perform a background check in order to volunteer to share what I love to do. No thanks. I was taking kids for rides long before the EAA ever cooked up the Young Eagles program. Their $1M additional liability insurance isn't worth what I have to give up to participate. So I'll return to what I was doing before there was an EAA program. I'll haul kids that are interested in flying for free, any time they want, without the constraints of the EAA programs.
What this move tells me is that the EAA has been working too much with the government and much like the government, is now being run by the lawyers. So this former Chapter president, former Flight Advisor, Former Tech Counselor, and now former proponent of Young Eagles, will take yet another step back away from the EAA and their lawyers. I will be introducing a motion for our chapter to suspend any further YE chapter events until the EAA can get their heads on straight again.
-Cub Builder
Last edited by cub builder; 01-21-2016 at 04:06 PM.
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