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Thread: Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

  1. #441
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, I took the training.

    I found the format and content acceptable, and it seemed to cover the ground adequately. Some of the questions were just basic regurgitation of the content just presented, but others weren't and did require a small amount of consideration. I even got a couple of questions wrong.

    The presentation covered what was acceptable contact...a concern to me since I often hoist the littlest kids into the cockpit of my single-seat airplane when they're too young to fly as Young Eagles. This, thankfully, is still allowed.

    I have to take a lot of corporate online training at work (Government procurement policies, business courtesies, ethics, security, hazardous waste handling, clean-room operations, etc.), and this was similar. Some of that training does ask questions right after each section of the material, like the YE training does.

    Some suggestions:

    1. The training needs to lead off with WHY it's necessary. Thankfully, there aren't any Young Eagles examples to use, but EAA needs to define the basic reason training became necessary. Something along the lines of, "Revelations of child abuse at several large organizations has shown the need for formal policies and training to protect the children. While there have been no reports of such abuse during Young Eagles events, EAA management has recognized the need for heightened awareness...."

    2. The training needs some "DO" and "DO NOT" lists to provide easier-to-remember summaries of key aspects of the policies. These lists could also then be made available to members as a refresher just before an event.

    3. There's a section on reporting abuse, where the first line is that any suspected activities must be reported. The trouble is, it doesn't say to WHOM. It does provide the data later in the section, but that was my big question when starting to read the page. I'd add the words "as described below" to the line that says reporting is required.

    4. The presentation is visually uninteresting. It needs a photo or graphic to go with each section, rather than a "wall of words." Show a volunteer buckling a kid into a seat when the section talks about appropriate touching, show a kid in a two-seat airplane when talking about the two-seater policy, etc. The pictures can be generic, but images would give a little more life to the thing. EAA had six months to put this together...supposedly.... so it should be more professional.

    5. On the same note, would it kill ya to use a larger font?

    The training itself just took 5-10 minutes, so folks don't need to be too concerned about it. I *still* wouldn't agree to the background check, but owning a single-seat aircraft, the issue is moot.

    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 02-06-2016 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #442
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    I don't think anyone on here thinks the EAA staff has bad intentions, but rather badly misguided good intentions as evidenced by creating a program in a vacuum without including those that it will affect the most. But the end result may be the same. A badly damaged program, a loss of membership, and a general distrust of the EAA leadership.
    Well said.

    So, what will be needed for the leadership to regain members' trust?

    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 02-06-2016 at 12:06 PM.

  3. #443
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    I have to wonder if EAA's insurance carrier is driving the background check requirement. The last time we renewed our church's insurance policy the carrier was really clamping down on probationary periods (background checks) and policies for those involved in children's education programs. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar is in play with the EAA.
    I spoke this morning with an individual who is in EAA management and was told insurance carriers are not driving this train. He gave me some background info but I prefer not to comment on it publicly.
    Sam Buchanan
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  4. #444
    Byron J. Covey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    I spoke this morning with an individual who is in EAA management and was told insurance carriers are not driving this train. He gave me some background info but I prefer not to comment on it publicly.
    Then why did you mention it?


    BJC

  5. #445
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron J. Covey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan
    I spoke this morning with an individual who is in EAA management and was told insurance carriers are not driving this train. He gave me some background info but I prefer not to comment on it publicly.
    Then why did you mention it?
    Well... Sam's a solid dude, and has been here for quite a while. I trust him. It's a interesting bit of information...though it does get the little curiosity antennas wiggling a bit.

    A previous poster mentioned (waaaay back in this thread) a close call involving a YE event, it's possible the policy is stemming from that.

    Ron Wanttaja

  6. #446
    Byron J. Covey
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Well... Sam's a solid dude, and has been here for quite a while. I trust him. It's a interesting bit of information...though it does get the little curiosity antennas wiggling a bit.

    A previous poster mentioned (waaaay back in this thread) a close call involving a YE event, it's possible the policy is stemming from that.

    Ron Wanttaja
    I'm not suggesting that I don't trust him; I don't even know him.

    I just don't like posts that tease "I know something about it (the subject being discussed) but I can't tell you". Better to have left it out of the post.


    BJC

  7. #447
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron J. Covey View Post
    Then why did you mention it?


    BJC
    The point of my post was to retract what I had posted earlier about insurance carriers being a driving force. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 02-06-2016 at 05:10 PM.
    Sam Buchanan
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  8. #448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    The point of my post was to retract what I had posted earlier about insurance carriers being a driving force. 'Nuff said.
    Thus leaving the lawyers as the driving force.

  9. #449
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rv builder View Post
    Thus leaving the lawyers as the driving force.
    Well... I tend more to think that people at headquarters became concerned of a potential problem, and took steps to bring the organization in line with other youth-oriented activities. I'm sure legal counsel was consulted, but probably wasn't the primary driver.

    Let's take a look at some good postings from the past that tend to support this. First, Jim Cunningham, in Post #124:

    I am very familiar with a chapter which it turned out had a registered sex offender as a member. The chapter did not know of his status until he left the area. This person was terrific, well liked, and an excellent volunteer. He never attended YE activity, and in retrospect now we know why.

    This was a "near miss" (in the sense that the person was a sex offender, but hadn't participated in Young Eagles), but Mark van Wyk in Post #132 provided a specific case:

    A Ramsey man [Chad Michael Geyen] who used to volunteer with youth faces more charges of sexual abuse against children....The father of two has a private pilot's license and volunteers with the Experimental Aircraft Association's Young Eagles program, which coordinates flights with volunteer pilots for young people interested in flying.

    Geyen has flown with more than 100 Young Eagles.


    Mark provided a full link at: http://www.twincities.com/2014/01/22...al-abuse-case/

    So, with the knowledge of these events, EAA Staffer Bret Steffen's explanation has the strong ring of truth (Post #93):

    There have been incidents in the past three years where YE pilots have been accused of illegal activities regarding youth outside of the program. While not directly linked to the program this has highlighted the fact that EAA has not kept step with the current practices of vetting people who have contact with children. The need for a youth protection policy became an obvious need and was not driven by any single factor, lawyer, or insurance company.

    So, I think it's reasonable for EAA to implement such a program.

    I think (and Bret confirmed it in a later posting) that EAA *really* dropped the ball in implementing this. In addition, I believe EAA seriously compounded the problem by claiming that membership had been warned this was coming. The outrage expressed here shows that the coming policy had not been adequately discussed with the membership prior to release, as is the dearth of mentions of the coming changes in the organization's official publication.

    Finally, we come to the background investigation issue. It's ironic to note the differences in the two cases above. In the case described by Mr. Cunningham, a background investigation may have revealed the previous convictions...except the person involved did not participate in Young Eagles, anyway and no investigation would have been made. The Geyen case Mr. van Wyk referenced involved an active predator flying Young Eagles... except it was, apparently, the first time he was caught and the background investigation would have given him a clean bill of health!

    Many people, such as myself, do not like continued intrusion into our lives and losses of privacy. We chose not to cooperate; not to hand our private data over to an outside entity that collects it solely for profit and gives us no insight or control into what's done with the data afterwards. It's a matter of conscience, and a decision that should be left to each member without argument.

    It's obvious the new policies are going to drive some formerly-dedicated participants out of the Young Eagles program. That this would happen should have been perfectly predictable. But I am deeply concerned that the EAA didn't anticipate this, and seems surprised by the reaction. Just because we're the "rank and file" doesn't mean we're smelly and as rough and dumb as an iron bar. When you're going to make major changes, please let us in on the planning.

    Ron "I am not a number!" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 02-07-2016 at 02:20 AM.

  10. #450

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    EAA Forum ACtivates norton virus

    Each time I try to read a response by clicking on it or reply Norton which is current running W10 pops up and says virus prevented.What's up on this site.Now back on topic. If the VA can loose millions of pieces of data on people, schools hacked into, and credit cards sold or stolen. Convince me that someone saying pleasegive us your SS, and all your ID,, trust us we won't let it get stolen.This is still the big crux of the issue that many have difficulty. I just completed a full background check for the LASP and then EAA wants another. Next it will be insurance co wants same info. SS number should only be used forSS purposes and not ID, it was never intended for identification or background checks.We have an obligation to protect the innocent. This means if we can't protect kids at ANY event, park, mall, EAA doesn't matter where. we need to look at our values.If someone at an EAA event is in any way injuring children and someone knows and doesn't stop it immediately they are guilty of the act.I have NO tolerance for child abuse, but find it offensive to provide all my ID info for a 2nd background check in the same month. There should be a way to just verify background in one place and not require it every time I buy a candy bar at the store.Ok venting a bit. I have completed the EAA requirements and kept the proof of that completion to fly YE's. But I don't like the background check and probably won't do another.

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