Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

[lyleapgmc]

Just becasue a lawyer gets invovled does not immediately mean the your chapter or the EAA is toast. There is much investigation, interviews and paper work to be done before any constructive or destructive action takes place. Lawyers do not make the decision as to whether a party is guilty or innocent. There are even some lawyers out there that are nice people.

What kind of protection policy will EAA develop if a parent feels they were improperly touched during a Young Eagle event or at a chapter meeting. That would be the APP. Will it run on your iPhone?

Jack Pelton commented, "The reality is that we have had two close calls over the past 18 months that could have impacted hundreds of youth." He did not explain how the hundreds of youth would have been impacted. It seems it is implied but that is the same as, "ASSUME." Over 25 years of Young Eagles and there have been two close calls. How close were they? Were the principals in those events doing something right to make amends for their other wrong doings? Would they have molested a Young Eagle that they had given a ride to? In one case we will never know.

How many child molesters have flown Young Eagles or have given rides to youth outside of the program over the history of the program? If there had been an incident the EAA, the local chapter and the Young Eagles program would have been the center of attention of the media. In Minnesota the person charged was NOT a member of the local chapter. He was an EAA member. There was no prior record of any inappropriate activity until he was charged. He had been molesting children for some time. A background check would NOT have revealed his activities.

I believe that Mr. Pelton's comment points out the futility of the Youth Protection Program. It is locking the stable after the horse is gone. Does anyone know how or why the horse left? The Program is a knee jerk reaction to an almost happened incident. If you have a near miss, what ever that really is, do you stop and look for someone to sue? Do you call an attorney?

The program is poorly written, confusing, even contradictory and in many situations can not be followed. Far more than ten or twelve chapters must be consulted for their input and their particular situation. Any program that requires a matrix to determine the requirements is far too complex to be applied in a real life situation.

As to whether a Young Eagle volunteer is an employee or not, Black’s Law Dictionary defines “employee” as “a person in the service of another under any contract of hire, express or implied, oral or written, where the employer has the power or right to control and direct the employee in the material details of how the work is to be performed.”This is from http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2002/01/art1full.pdf. Read the piece for more information about the wage and hour law and providing benefits for contract employees.

My nickel's worth. You will be billed.

[ssmdive]

I think you missed the point. If you or your chapter are involved in an issue involving a child enough to be talking to lawyers you're already toast.

Nope, I think you missed it. If there is an incident, the *individual* is toast no doubt. If the chapter has all the required paperwork per the EAA, they stand a chance of surviving. If they don't, toast. The EAA is protected because they will just claim the chapter was stupid.

The chapter has zero chance of survival if they willingly ignore the requirements.

You may claim otherwise..... But the fact is that no matter how small the chance you want to claim the chapter has.... Ignoring the requirements equals no chance.

[rwanttaja]

Rather than totally drop the YE program, I'm not sure why chapters don't just skip the parts of the policy they can't/won't comply with.

Our chapter unfortunately suffered the first accident and death of Young Eagles during a rally a number of years back.

You don't know HOW many times we blessed ourselves that we followed the rules to the letter.

If you're going to fly kids, great! If you're going to fly kids as EAA or under the Young Eagles aegis, please follow the rules. Let's get the rules changed, if we can, but otherwise, let's play the cards we're dealt.

Ron Wanttaja

[rv builder]

Nope, I think you missed it. If there is an incident, the *individual* is toast no doubt. If the chapter has all the required paperwork per the EAA, they stand a chance of surviving. If they don't, toast. The EAA is protected because they will just claim the chapter was stupid.

The chapter has zero chance of survival if they willingly ignore the requirements.

You may claim otherwise..... But the fact is that no matter how small the chance you want to claim the chapter has.... Ignoring the requirements equals no chance.

So that's another aspect to this whole debacle that hasn't been addressed by EAA, as far as I can see.

Suppose an incident *is* alleged, and the parents sue EAA and the local chapter and the members individually. What protection in the form of legal defense will EAA provide to the chapter and the members/volunteers? For how long? Will they pay any judgements against the chapter or the individuals? What about appeals? In other words, are the chapter and the individual members fully indemnified/covered for all losses/judgements against them?

[cub builder]

If you're going to fly kids, great! If you're going to fly kids as EAA or under the Young Eagles aegis, please follow the rules. Let's get the rules changed, if we can, but otherwise, let's play the cards we're dealt.

Ron Wanttaja

Well now, that's the problem. Lots of people on here have presented reasonable alternatives in an attempt to make this a better and more successful program. Near as I can tell, the EAA isn't interested in listening beyond attempting to clarify their poorly written program. They have successfully diverted peoples attention from their utterly useless background checks, which seems to be the major hang up for many of us. Sorry. The EAA I spent the last few decades helping to build isn't the one that demands I prove myself not to be a criminal in order to continue to serve them for free.

-Cub Builder

[lyleapgmc]

Our chapter unfortunately suffered the first accident and death of Young Eagles during a rally a number of years back.

You don't know HOW many times we blessed ourselves that we followed the rules to the letter.

If you're going to fly kids, great! If you're going to fly kids as EAA or under the Young Eagles aegis, please follow the rules. Let's get the rules changed, if we can, but otherwise, let's play the cards we're dealt.

Ron Wanttaja

That was very unfortunate. It had to have been a very sad day for everyone involved. It was nothing at all like the "close calls" that Jack Pelton mentioned.

Which rules were you following or, which FAA regulations were you following?

My point is that the EAA's rules do not have the force of law. If the lawyers were bent on extracting a pound of flesh from a pilot or a chapter they will poke all kinds of holes in the EAA rules. It is far more difficult to find loop holes in laws and regulations. This is especially true if there is case law that either supports or opposes the premise of a law or regulation. Some of the regulations and laws were written with some thought given to the impact they will have and whether they are enforceable.


Lyle

[rwanttaja]

That was very unfortunate. It had to have been a very sad day for everyone involved. It was nothing at all like the "close calls" that Jack Pelton mentioned.

Which rules were you following or, which FAA regulations were you following?

By "rules," I meant the rules for the Young Eagles program. We of course followed FAA regs. We did verify that the pilot met the YE requirements and the passengers were properly registered as YEs, with their parents' permission, etc. This made things a lot easier for EAA in regards to the legal aspects. It was a sad situation, indeed, but it was settled with a minimum of rancor.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

That was very unfortunate. It had to have been a very sad day for everyone involved. It was nothing at all like the "close calls" that Jack Pelton mentioned.

I got the impression the "close calls" Pelton mentioned were youth-protection sort of instances, like the case that Mark van Wyk found.

Ron Wanttaja

[combahee]

Just read the latest update from Jack Pelton on the YPP. So now after all this they are going to split the program into 3 sections, chapter activities, Airventure and YE flights.
Maybe, just maybe EAA is getting the message that this whole deal is a mess?
Mr. Pelton, with all due respect, pull the program, fix it, get proper input and then only then put it out. Your employee here Dennis is doing an admiral job trying to get interpretations for us, however he shouldn't have to. The policy should be self explanatory even for us dumbed down pilots. In addition as long as there is a requirement for a mandatory background check it's a no deal. I can speak not only for myself but also all the pilots in my chapter and numerous others.
So maybe you think this will blow over, guess again. We were insulted by the original roll out, see no benefit to us or our chapter, and you are asking us, the ones that really are the backbone of the YE program to submit to all this.
It's not that we don't want to protect kids, we do. We could probably use some education to know what to look for and how to help prevent abuse, the video works well here. But the other aspects of the program just don't and can't work.

[cub builder]

Just read the latest update from Jack Pelton on the YPP. So now after all this they are going to split the program into 3 sections, chapter activities, Airventure and YE flights.
Maybe, just maybe EAA is getting the message that this whole deal is a mess?
Mr. Pelton, with all due respect, pull the program, fix it, get proper input and then only then put it out. Your employee here Dennis is doing an admiral job trying to get interpretations for us, however he shouldn't have to. The policy should be self explanatory even for us dumbed down pilots. In addition as long as there is a requirement for a mandatory background check it's a no deal. I can speak not only for myself but also all the pilots in my chapter and numerous others.
So maybe you think this will blow over, guess again. We were insulted by the original roll out, see no benefit to us or our chapter, and you are asking us, the ones that really are the backbone of the YE program to submit to all this.
It's not that we don't want to protect kids, we do. We could probably use some education to know what to look for and how to help prevent abuse, the video works well here. But the other aspects of the program just don't and can't work.

Well stated Combahee.

I just read the same. The last paragraph was the same old blather about how background checks are the answer "'cause everyone else does it", when it actually provides little to no protection for children. The last paragraph pretty much says it all. The EAA management is going to stick with this stillborn mess. So the EAA is happy with writing off the the YE programs from the small chapters. So be it.

It seems EAA HQ is only interested in listening to those that agree with them. We certainly wouldn't want to apply a little common sense and do something that everyone else isn't doing.

-Cub Builder