Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

[cub builder]

This is going to sound a little "out there," but as a person who has undergone many "sensitivity" training sessions and background checks at various corporations, government contractors, and government entities such as serving on a county board-- be it race relations, sexual harassment, etc. -- I've found that usually the way it works is you just put up with it and take the class and sign the form, and then life goes on as normal. You rarely notice any difference, except maybe you are a bit more aware of certain sensitive issues. I've never been "hurt" by any of these types of training.
I'm certain even people who have served in the Military know what I am talking about.
DON'T MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL, FOLKS. I doubt very seriously that there will be "rule compliance Nazis" at every YE event. My advice: take the training, take the background check, and keep participating in YE.

You keep advising that, but your own poll in the sister thread currently shows that over 80% will not submit to this. So I'm thinking you are in a small minority on this issue. I know you keep saying this is not a problem, but some 80% of your friends on here disagree.

Yes, at work we are required to tolerate this kind of nonsense as a requirement of employment. I am employed because I have to do that to feed my family. Volunteers have no such requirement. I like flying kids, but I don't have to fly kids in order to feed my family and I don't have to be an EAA blessed volunteer to fly kids. The YE program was a tool, but that tool is now broken.

If the numbers in your poll have any reflection on reality, then the EAA corporate types are going to have to either go back and start over again, or write off the YE program as a casualty to their own stupidity. You can argue all you want, but the fact is volunteers don't have to volunteer. When it reaches their pain threshold, volunteers can simply walk away. According to your own poll, some 80% are saying this has reached their pain threshold.

-Cub Builder

[CraigCantwell]

You just don't get it Mark. This smoking pile isn't a molehill, it's an entire mountain range to use your line. Are you willing to sacrifice your chapter to prove that nothing will happen if you violate one of the rules? I'm not willing to even think about it for mine. BTW, if I don't follow the "rules and policies" at work, the least that will happen to me is time off without pay for some period, and the most is that people die and there is lots of collateral damage. And yes, I have security clearances, and I am required to abide by FAA, NTSB, DOT, DOD, DHS, DOE, NRC and OSHA rules on the federal side, as well as the Texas DSHS RCP on my job.

I spend up to 80 hours a year taking corporate and government mandated training and testing on ethics, sexual harassment, race relations, workplace violence and several other topics besides more than 100 hours training time directly related to my job, so I am well aware of how it is presented and how it affects the workplace. I put up with it because I am well paid for what I do. I am also hyper aware that there are people out there that get their jollies from seeing people get in trouble for not following the rules to the letter. I've seen it happen in the company that I work for.

Do I think the EAA needs a policy? Yes it does, but, and here is the caveat, it needs to be one that will work and be an asset rather than the overbearing, insulting, labor intensive monstrosity that they have presented to us as a fait accompli. The sooner they realize this and listen and come up with a workable plan, the better it will be for the organization and maybe some of the damage can be repaired before it's too late.

[Rod Schneider]

This is going to sound a little "out there," but as a person who has undergone many "sensitivity" training sessions and background checks at various corporations, government contractors, and government entities such as serving on a county board-- be it it be ethics, race relations, sexual harassment, etc. -- I've found that usually the way it works is you just put up with it and take the class and sign the form, and then life goes on as normal. You rarely notice any difference, except maybe you are a bit more aware of certain sensitive issues. I've never been "hurt" by any of these types of training.
I'm certain even people who have served in the Military know what I am talking about.
DON'T MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL, FOLKS. I doubt very seriously that there will be "rule compliance Nazis" at every YE event. My advice: take the training, take the background check, and keep participating in YE.

Since you seem to think that this is a "Mole Hill" and everyone else is over reacting, then maybe you'd feel comfortable sharing your Social Security number, birth date, and home address on this forum for all to see?
Don't want too? I certainly will understand if you don't, but realize that anytime you submit that information on line, you are running the same kind of risk. I, for one, will not take that risk........

[ChrisNC]

I have read all of the comments on the EAA Forum on this topic to date. Wow – this is a bit of afire-storm! Thus far, it seems that the largest objection is to having to give out a SSN rather than the requirement to have background checks for YE volunteers, although there are a few folks who don’t like that either (they are dreaming - this is not the world of 50 years ago). I certainly understand the reluctance to give out an SSN if it is not really necessary, and well-protected in the process (there have been multiple security breaches over the last several years, so the fear is well-founded). Most folks appear to see the rationale in vetting volunteers who will work with kids (I agree with that as well). Note the post that related specific information regarding a registered sex offender pilot that had flown a bunch of YE kids (no evidence related of any wrongdoing on his part during those flights) without anyone in the Chapter even being aware that he was a RSO until he left the chapter when he moved. Scary, I think. That and a couple of other similar incidents was apparently why the EAA BoD took this step. Not sure how well they thought it through, but that was the reason given by staff in one of the posts on the forum.

Quite a few comments question the qualifications of the vendor who is contracted to do the background checks, saying that they are not really doing the checks, as stated by EAA, but that they had subcontracted the checks to an entity of questionable qualification. That should be of concern, and I hope that EAA Board will address that concern and rethink whether including the SSN in the process is really necessary. If EAA still deems the SSN to be necessary, my guess is that they will have a much smaller pool of volunteers for this worthwhile program. Note that there is also a concern by some of the posters on the Forum that the background check policy extends beyond YE, even to the extent of having youth participate in any EAA programs, including Chapter meetings. I am not sure about that, but EAA national needs to address all of these concerns sooner rather than later. That would not seem particularly reasonable, given that there are a lot of adults around at meetings. I get their desire to protect the kids with whom we are entrusted, and agree with the rationale, but that protection process really needs to be more carefully thought out.

It seems to me that one option would be to have a winter stand-down of the YE program, work through these issues, address the concerns and be ready to go in the Spring. Knee-jerk reactions to a perceived (or real) problem usually draw knee-jerk responses.

Chris M

[combahee]

The thing many of you are ignoring or just not realizing is the onerous requirements on all the volunteers, not just the pilots. ANY volunteer that volunteers 4 or more times per year, or 4 hours or more has to undergo the checks and training. This would include the school teachers that bring the high school ROTC kids. The military pilots that volunteer their Saturdays to answer questions while the other kids are being flown. The wives doing paperwork, the volunteers walking the kids to the planes and the photographer recording each flight to give the youth an extra souvenir.
Add to this all the extra paperwork and keeping it secure.
What do we do with the chapter member that is under 18? Does he have to leave if there aren't 2 vetted members present at all times?
Before anyone defends any of the policy read the stipulations.
Mark van Wyk; let me quote you, "DON'T MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL, FOLKS. I doubt very seriously that there will be "rule compliance Nazis" at every YE event." Are you even suggesting we only pay lip service and ignore the EAA rules, to lie to the EAA and not be in compliance? What else are you lying or cheating on?
Are the rules so distasteful that even you are willing to bend the rules?

[ssmdive]

This is going to sound a little "out there," but as a person who has undergone many "sensitivity" training sessions and background checks at various corporations, government contractors, and government entities such as serving on a county board-- be it it be ethics, race relations, sexual harassment, etc. -- I've found that usually the way it works is you just put up with it and take the class and sign the form, and then life goes on as normal. You rarely notice any difference, except maybe you are a bit more aware of certain sensitive issues.

So just walk along, don't care about how a group that is supposed to represent you is dictating what you WILL do to volunteer your time and money? Just shut up and do it and then ignore it?

I've never been "hurt" by any of these types of training.

I ask for maybe the THIRD time.... Ever have your identity stolen? Cause if not, then you have no idea what you are talking about when you tell others to not worry about it. Are YOU going to personally cover my financial costs if the EAA loses my identity? Are YOU personally going to call all the creditors and explain what is going on? And making me do dumb things for dumb reasons is hurting me. It is wasting my time. Maybe you have nothing better to do, but I'd rather not waste my time on stupid requirements that will do nothing.

I'm certain even people who have served in the Military know what I am talking about.

We know all about useless training. But even people who have not been in the military know the difference between taking stupid required training because they have to follow the lawful orders of a superior, or people with a job understand taking stupid training because you are getting paid is different than being ordered to take stupid training from a group that is supposed to represent you, not order you around.

DON'T MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL, FOLKS. I doubt very seriously that there will be "rule compliance Nazis" at every YE event. My advice: take the training, take the background check, and keep participating in YE.

Again, ever had your ID stolen?

[Mark van Wyk]

Again, ever had your ID stolen? ....snip.... Then MAYBE you will grasp why this is a big deal.

True, unlike you I have the guts to use my real name. Bravo. You did a Google search. I'm going to report you the forum moderator and see if I can have your disgusting post removed.

[ssmdive]

True, unlike you I have the guts to use my real name. Bravo. You did a Google search. I'm going to report you the forum moderator and see if I can have your disgusting post removed.

Oh, don't like some minor stuff out there? If all I did was a quick "google" then why so upset? Well, that's why we don't want our data out there big guy. Maybe you just learned a bit of a lesson - I doubt it, but maybe.

[Janet Davidson]

Before this deteriorates in to a serious spat, can we just rein back a little bit, and instead of squabbling with Mark (I do agree with everyone else's comments regarding his posts, but that's neither here nor there), focus on the issue at hand - the background checks, the SSN requirement, and EAA staff who came up with this idea.

For me, in all of that letter, what really made me laugh was the "free of charge" sentence. Seriously? You, EAA staff, had considered charging volunteers for the privilege of this for long enough that you felt the need to point out you now were not going to charge the volunteers? Can you spell arrogant?

Isn't it sad that people who would normally sit around happily discussing your shared passion are at each other's throats because of this ill-thought out, badly conceived program created by the folks who work for you.

[smutny]

I know many of us are ticked off about how this was sprung on us, and about many of the policies. My understanding is that it is being discussed at every level in Oshkosh now. So, as hard as it is in this information age of instant gratification, let's see what EAA comes back with (hopefully) soon.