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Thread: Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

  1. #381

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    15
    Read Pelton's missive. Reads like a political campaign speech. Parsed it for actual information. Semantic content is null.

    Read the media file last night. While it does address some sticking points specific to YE rally activities, it does NOT address the majority of the issues / questions raised here.

    Net output = nothing constructive has changed from last week. Still an unacceptable situation.

  2. #382
    cub builder's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    North Central AR
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcroGimp View Post
    And there's the rub, want to go to OSH, must support the org, want to compete in IAC, must support the org, want to fly YE, must support the org.

    The guys aren't the problem, the chapters aren't the problem (although IAC 36 has some serious politic BS going on but that is another story). The org is the problem and it only speaks one language, money.

    Unless and until the org hears a message, in the only language it understands, and at a volume it can't ignore, it has now clearly stated it doesn't care what we mere peons think down in the hinterlands, so long as our tribute continues to flow.

    Well I for one am done with complying and submitting and participating in any further erosion of my freedoms (more than enough of that going on everywhere else already) and that includes subjecting myself to this background check and training, in order to (sort of) protect the org - it does absolutely nothing for me as a volunteer.

    And anyone who thinks EAA being able to point to this program is going to keep them out of a suit for any real or imagined molestation that may eventually happen, someday, somewhere, somehow, is deluding themselves.

    This literally does nothing for the org, and nothing for us as volunteers - worse, it is overly burdensome and self-contradictory as has been pointed out on multiple occasions.

    'Gimp
    I'm afraid I have to agree with 'Gimp. This whole thing has been ugly. Lest someone misinterprets this, I think everyone on this thread is in favor of protecting children. The argument has been; 1) The program doesn't do as advertised (protect children); 2), It it overly intrusive; and 3), It is downright insulting. Many point at the Boy Scouts and Churches and says "They do it, so we should do the same." Why? There is a huge difference between a 15 minute plane ride vs spending an evening a week plus some overnight or camping trips with kids.

    Rather than being overly intrusive and insulting to the volunteers without actually protecting children, let's do something that might actually make sense. Sex crimes are crimes of opportunity. So let's remove the opportunity. All it takes is a simple set of rules that are included as part of pre-rally briefing. Always have a second adult accompany children to and from the plane. In our chapter, we always included a parent and a ground worker. For flight line safety, a ground worker always escorts the parent(s) to and from the plane both before and after the flight. The worker and parent stay nearby, certainly in sight, until the aircraft is started. Then the worker escorts the family members back to the waiting area. After the flight, a ground worker escorts the family back out to the plane. We usually don't unload until the parent is there as they always want pictures of the kids in the plane anyway. (The smiles are much bigger after the flight!)

    One time I held my own rally flying a number of Cub Scouts (in a 2 seat plane). I had parents on the ground plus one Scout leader act as my second and ground worker. It was a simple process that protected me as well as the kids. This really isn't rocket science and doesn't require a rigid bureaucratic nightmare to do successfully.

    As has already been stated, background checks only filter out those accused or convicted. It does nothing to catch those without a record, which is what we really need to protect against. Those convicted and registered know better than to participate in youth activities lest they be exposed and gain more publicity as registered offenders. The registries are public information and a number of people check them. The background checks are nothing more than an intrusive way to make it look as if the EAA cares while accomplishing nothing to actually protect children. It's all show and is about legalities rather than actual security.

    A number of years ago, my then 7 year old son was molested by a vetted and cleared school principal. This was an event that thoroughly screwed up his life, and cost us as a family a great deal of anguish as well as many tens of thousands of $$ in counseling for my son. Those that haven't been through this can't imagine the family nightmare this one event kicked off that lasted for decades. If I thought the background checks, vetting and rigid rules held any value to prevent this from happening, I'd be on board. I am not. And believe me, after my family's experience, I do take this issue quite seriously. A better solution is to simply eliminate the opportunity for such events to happen with the presence of a second adult as well as parents whenever possible. These are common sense solutions that might need to be re-emphasized during the pre-rally briefing at each rally.

    This whole rollout has been ugly and insulting to the membership. Much like 'Gimp, it seems clear the EAA HQ only understands $$. I've already been told that if I walk away, my membership is insignificant. But I simply can not go along with the theatrical semblance of security. So, this former Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor, Newsletter Editor, Chapter Web Master, Chapter VP, and long time Chapter President has shut off the auto-renewal on his membership, and unless a real solution and some common sense comes to the forefront, will allow his 27 year membership to expire. The EAA has been a big part of my life, and it has been a fun ride. But I simply can not stomach what the EAA is becoming.

    -Cub Builder
    Last edited by cub builder; 02-03-2016 at 10:46 AM.

  3. #383

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Posts
    4
    As President of Chapter 67, I have been following the posts concerning the Youth Protection Policy. Needless to say this has been a hot topic within our Chapter. A little background about our Chapter. When I was elected as President 7 years ago, membership was at it lowest point in years. The Chapter needed help and a new direction. I made some changes and with the help of the members we brought the Chapter back. The Chapter Pancake Breakfast Fly In's grew from having a few hundred people show up to now where we have close to 1600 people show up. The proceeds we made from the Fly In's has allowed us to send 3 kids a year to the Air Academy. Through the hard work of our Young Eagle Coordinator and our members, we have regularly flown 200-250 kids per year. Our Chapter has made promoting aviation to the kids, the next generation and the future of aviation, our main goal. So now, what has this new policy done to our Chapter? It has destroyed everything I and the others in the Chapter have worked so hard build. Gone will be the 250 kids we have given Young Eagle rides to. Why? not enough pilots and volunteers willing to complete the required checks and training. Gone will be the Fly In's that the local community has looked forward to attending each year. Why? not enough members left in the Chapter to be able to put them on. Gone will be the kids that we send to the Air Academy each year.

    I beg and plead to the leadership of EAA to STOP this policy and work with the Chapters and the members to come up with a program that we can actually work with. Not this program that is killing the EAA I used to know. It is very hard to see this chapter falling apart due to this one ill conceived program.

  4. #384

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6
    Jack, you are a nice guy trying to do the right thing, but I think maybe you don't get it. I shall enlighten you.

    I will speak only for myself: I am TIRED. Tired of being shoved around. Tired of being considered a molester-in-prospect until proven otherwise. Tired of jumping through hoops to provide imagined protection for others, whom I already pay so that I can be part of their club. Tired of having people stand in front of me with their hands out, asking me to donate my time, my airplane, my efforts, and being rewarded with more paperwork so I can prove that I am not dangerous or a pervert.

    Now hear this: My time is my own. So is my airplane. I will, or will not, donate it as I see fit. If those who wish to benefit from my generosity are worried about my possibly molesting their children (when in my experience I should be MORE worried about their assaulting ME), then as my mother said, "If you don't like my company, then it takes less of it to suffice."

    If EAA wants the benefit of my attention, you may have it on my terms. Otherwise, it takes less of me to suffice. Discussion over.

  5. #385

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    15
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
    If EAA wants the benefit of my attention, you may have it on my terms. Otherwise, it takes less of me to suffice. Discussion over.
    +1!

  6. #386

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
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    18
    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    This whole thing has been ugly. Lest someone misinterprets this, I think everyone on this thread is in favor of protecting children. The argument has been; 1) The program doesn't do as advertised (protect children); 2), It it overly intrusive; and 3), It is downright insulting. Many point at the Boy Scouts and Churches and says "They do it, so we should do the same." Why? There is a huge difference between a 15 minute plane ride vs spending an evening a week plus some overnight or camping trips with kids.
    I'm with you, Cub Builder. Parents seem to have no issue trusting us to take their children flying and return them safely to the ground. Is this "youth thing" even on their minds? It will be now. There are few (if any) checks in place with regards to the pilot's competency or the aircraft's maintenance. Seems like the youth protection issue is now more important than core safety.

    It would be one thing if the EAA proactively suggested we watch the video for our own education. Not a bad idea. In fact, add it into the Wings program for when flying with kids. The background checks (SSN or not) is another story.

    Q: How is it that a CFI can spend countless hours alone with a minor in a cramped C150 (ie impossible to avoid physical contact), yet the FAA has never seen cause to require these types of background checks for instructors?

    I joined the EAA specifically to participate in the YE program as I love sharing the wonderment of flight. I have nothing to hide but disagree vehemently with these policies and will let my membership expire.

    I was hoping to be swayed by Pelton's email. It read like a response from "Siri" and was just as demeaning.
    Last edited by RickG; 02-03-2016 at 06:27 AM. Reason: typos

  7. #387
    OK, I think we all got it now. Many EAA volunteers are not happy with the new policy. My bet is that it is not going away. I think the choice is pretty clear: comply with it or stop participating in YE. That simple.

    http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/up...dead-horse.gif
    http://i.imgur.com/cOMj3.gif
    http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...40/655/439.gif

    p.s. To Tom and Ronald -- no I am not a shill for EAA. Just a realist.
    Last edited by Mark van Wyk; 02-02-2016 at 11:44 PM.

  8. #388

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Justin, Texas
    Posts
    218
    Mark: Why are you so insistsant that those members that disagree with national, roll over and become submissive to them? My understanding is that national is subservant to the membership through the BOD. We, the membership are the reason it exists. Why has national becomes dictatorial to it's membership and is unresponsive to us? Right now, on this subject, national no longer serves us, but demands we serve it. How long will it survive with that attitude towards those that are the body of the organization. Not a single person that has posted on this subject over the last 10 days or so has advocated doing away with policy in it's entirety. Instead we have called for rewriting the policy into a logical, workable and effective one that is an asset to EAA instead of something that creates more problems than it will help.

  9. #389

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    FA40
    Posts
    767
    Possibly off what some think is the topic, so beware of stupid if you read on:

    Last night I attended a meeting filled with drug addicts, convicted felons of all persuasions, alcoholics, various sex offenders including child molestors, compulsive gluttons and bulemics. Some of the attendees couldn't stay for the entire meeting because their parole officers enforced a 9pm curfew. My daughter was with me because we didn't get a sitter.

    Where was I?

    Celebrate Recovery. In a church. Practicing parental responsibiity.
    Last edited by Mike M; 02-03-2016 at 06:54 AM.

  10. #390

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    17
    I have completed all the checks and bless by EAA. However I am totally unsatisfied with the background check. I just worked with Sheriff's office and they did a full background check. Why couldn't the EAA just do a follow up vs looking for another way to lose my information.

    Now about the wives that cook during a YE event. They are members by marriage to members of our chapter. They WILL NOT submit to background check and therefore apparently can't be cooking in the kitchen at the public airport when a minor comes into eat breakfast. All the EAA has to do now is convince them. Never happen I can assure you. How about older members way over 65 that are honorary members in the chapter, they wont' do it either.


    I understand that society and news agencies look to make a quick buck at someone else expense but somewhere there needs to be tort reform so that in a law suit if you lose you pay damages. We let the lawyers and easy money makers off easy and everyone else pays with back ground checks, permits, loss of freedom and on.

    My guess is our chapter will stop YE flying and do a wait and see until all this sorts out but wont' know for sure until next meeting.

    I can summarize this all up in one word,, NUTS!

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