Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

[rwanttaja]

I have confirmed with our staff that a monthly chapter meeting WOULD NOT be considered a youth-oriented event. In that case, you would not need a waiver signed by their parents.

Your question about local high school students dropping in meets similar criteria. You are not hosting a specific youth-oriented event, so a waiver wouldn't be needed.

Thanks much. Key phrase is "specific youth-oriented event", then. I anticipate this clarification will be added to the next policy update.

Ron Wanttaja

[djenders]

Lets keep this simple. EAA wants to protect the national organization and to do so must protect under 18. In our society today with all the 10 commandments thrown out anything goes. Rules from the EAA and the 10 commandments are both rules. If a pilot says I wont' do a background check for what ever reason, it doesn't matter no one flies.
Last night we professionally covered the new youth protection plan by reading directly from EAA documentation and no adding opinions. All YE activity by the local chapter stopped last night. Why. Almost total back lash on doing the background checks. We have fly-ins where kids can fly in and that would be from an EAA chapter. Now all fly-ins have been delayed for risk of non compliance. My guess the average age of the members present were about 55. Make all the rules you want but several members stated if this was required to do the background check AND all the record keeping they would withdraw from the EAA and just have a pilots meeting in a public site. Perhaps this is short term but for now the yearly flying events for our chapter has stopped dead in it's tracks until we know from the members how many will do the training and background check. Continue making "rules" and see how it works out.

You may have not seen my follow-up to Ron's question. Your fly-ins, as I understand it here, are not specifically youth-oriented events or activities. So as the policy is written, you wouldn't need waivers.

More simply said, if an event is intended for kids it needs to follow the YPP, if the event is intended for adults you do not.

Dennis

[djenders]

Thanks much. Key phrase is "specific youth-oriented event", then. I anticipate this clarification will be added to the next policy update.

Ron Wanttaja

You are welcome Ron.

You, and a few others, have asked about answers to lingering questions, clarification, and / or updates to the policy. I feel comfortable sharing that we have met internally to discuss. And as you can tell, we do monitor our inbound channels and this thread for feedback.

While I can't promise a specific date or time that clarification will come, I believe that will happen.

As Bret mentioned much earlier in this thread, we realize the roll-out of this policy could have been better communicated. I agree with him, and I hope all of you see it as a learning opportunity for us. We are human, and are all trying very hard to our best, our best for you, and for the organization. Without our members EAA wouldn't exist.

We've been focused on some of the negative here in the thread, but there has been a lot of positive comments we've received too. I just want you to know we are listening to our membership, and trying our best to protect everyone – including youth, our pilots and volunteers, our chapters, and the organization.

I'll continue to answer questions that I can, or work to get answers for you. I jumped into the thread to provide another voice and help Bret, Glory and others in answering your questions. But I also encourage anyone to call us or send an e-mail throughfeedback@eaa.org.

Thanks for the patience, but also thank you for being passionate members. I mean that.
Dennis

[AcroGimp]

Ron -

A little follow-up, and I apologize for the delay. I've been battling some sort of sickness for a few days.

You brought up a good question based off the language on the matrix. Again, a good learning for us how people read and absorb the policy. We always strive to make things as clear as we can, but having this sort of feedback is helpful.

I have confirmed with our staff that a monthly chapter meeting WOULD NOT be considered a youth-oriented event. In that case, you would not need a waiver signed by their parents.

Your question about local high school students dropping in meets similar criteria. You are not hosting a specific youth-oriented event, so a waiver wouldn't be needed. That said, I'm sure any kids on a field trip may have signed something at their school already.

Hope that helps.
Dennis

See this is backward, while there is literally next to no if any chance for actual abuse to occur on a YE flight, there IS an opportunity on a fly-in/fly-out, or at a chapter meeting or other event where the actual exposure to actual potential abuse is actually there. A legal-beagle would tear that up in 2 seconds.

PLEASE go back to the drawing board, correctly identify the actual risks and then create the minimally invasive policy that addresses the risk effectively and efficiently - right now it is all wrong.

'Gimp

[tomkk]

Rather than totally drop the YE program, I'm not sure why chapters don't just skip the parts of the policy they can't/won't comply with. The online course isn't a problem and, now that the SSN requirement has been eliminated, I don't really object to a background check - I don't have to enter any information that isn't publicly available in any number of other places. If Chapters don't want to or have no way to store records for 30 years, don't. Same with other parts of the policy: make a good faith effort to comply with the spirit of the policy based on local resources and get on with the program. No policy like this will ever satisfy everyone and not everyone will have the resources to completely satisfy all of it. I doubt Chapters are going to be audited on how long they keep their records ...

[Mark van Wyk]

Rather than totally drop the YE program, I'm not sure why chapters don't just skip the parts of the policy they can't/won't comply with. The online course isn't a problem and, now that the SSN requirement has been eliminated, I don't really object to a background check - I don't have to enter any information that isn't publicly available in any number of other places. If Chapters don't want to or have no way to store records for 30 years, don't. Same with other parts of the policy: make a good faith effort to comply with the spirit of the policy based on local resources and get on with the program. No policy like this will ever satisfy everyone and not everyone will have the resources to completely satisfy all of it. I doubt Chapters are going to be audited on how long they keep their records ...

+1

[ssmdive]

Rather than totally drop the YE program, I'm not sure why chapters don't just skip the parts of the policy they can't/won't comply with. ..... If Chapters don't want to or have no way to store records for 30 years, don't. .....

If there is an incident and the chapter did not follow the laid out program... Any lawyer will chew you up and spit you out.

Shyster: So Mr Tom, you are saying that the parent organization has a program in place and your local chapter just decided on its own to ignore the parts of the policy they didn't like? Why is that? To protect the defendant and coverup the wrong doing that you knew was happening?

Your chapter would be toast.

See, I deal with the FAA daily in my real world job. They have us write manuals on how we will do "X". If we deviate from "X" they have us dead to rights. Once an organization has a policy in place, if you want to participate as part of that organization, you had better make a real world effort to completely follow not just the intent (so called "spirit") but also the LETTER of the requirements.

I doubt Chapters are going to be audited on how long they keep their records ...

Not by the EAA, but by any lawyer if something happens. And if you don't have those records..... You are already guilty.

[combahee]

You may have not seen my follow-up to Ron's question. Your fly-ins, as I understand it here, are not specifically youth-oriented events or activities. So as the policy is written, you wouldn't need waivers.

More simply said, if an event is intended for kids it needs to follow the YPP, if the event is intended for adults you do not.

Dennis

Dennis, your interpretation is NOT what is in the policy. I have read it over and over. It is pretty black and white in most areas. There is no exclusion for "primarily adult" activities. Your explanation is not what the membership is reading, they are reading the policy. See why this is such a mess?
Here is a prime example of what the EAA is afraid of.....


This young lady was part of the high school Air Force ROTC and she and another student just completed her first airplane flight. All of the kids are escorted to and from the aircraft by the pilot and a volunteer who also took this picture. All she could talk about was how great the experience was. This is what it is all about. Sorry didn't get a "cross shoulder hug"!

[Marty Santic]

Dennis, could you address the following... How does the chapter ensure ALL that participate in such events have completed the required training and have initiated the background check and have been approved? All pilots and ground helpers must go thru the process. MANY are involved. Will the EAA provide a listing of those vetted on request? Unless done, the chapter is liable, the chapter officers and the board is liable. The YE Coordinator is liable. As I see it, if we are not 100% compliant, all that participate become liable in this area if the unforeseen occurs. The EAA would no longer be liable as the new program requires 100% compliance. Yes, I agree with your previous post, the EAA is somewhat protected. The chapters, not so much so unless there is 100% compliance.

[tomkk]

If there is an incident and the chapter did not follow the laid out program... Any lawyer will chew you up and spit you out.

Shyster: So Mr Tom, you are saying that the parent organization has a program in place and your local chapter just decided on its own to ignore the parts of the policy they didn't like? Why is that? To protect the defendant and coverup the wrong doing that you knew was happening?

Your chapter would be toast.

See, I deal with the FAA daily in my real world job. They have us write manuals on how we will do "X". If we deviate from "X" they have us dead to rights. Once an organization has a policy in place, if you want to participate as part of that organization, you had better make a real world effort to completely follow not just the intent (so called "spirit") but also the LETTER of the requirements.



Not by the EAA, but by any lawyer if something happens. And if you don't have those records..... You are already guilty.

So, I guess now you're arguing that creating all those records and the 30 year retention is necessary? Sorry, I thought you were arguing against them. Do you really believe that anything we've been talking about here is going to stop "Mr. Shyster"? If there's an incident that promulgates Mr. Shyster talking to you at all, you and your Chapter will be toast no matter what records you keep. Your best defense will not lie in anything the national organization does but, rather, being able to demonstrate the precautions you did take to protect the child were reasonable and prudent and hope you have a friendly jury.