Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

[FlyingRon]

TIf I understand correctly, Congress mandated this.

People keep saying this, but frankly, it's not DOCUMENTED anywhere. The argument the FAA used to impose this piece of stupidity was the requirement Congress made to mandate PHOTO pilot certificates. Only in the FAA's illegal and warped inane behavior with the TSA putting their hand up their back to work their mouth would you stretch the intent of congress into this behavior.

[Mark van Wyk]

At this point, I am noting that for the most part, the biggest objection many have is the submission of the Social Security Number as part of the background check. I submitted mine, but here is my question: if they got rid of that requirement, would more of you reconsider and take the training, and take the background check? If they only asked for your name, address, etc., and no SSN? Otherwise you would put up with the new rules, no matter how infuriating they may seem? I ask because I don't want to see the ranks of YE pilots depleted and my own local YE program destroyed. LET'S LOOK FOR A SOLUTION.
And, as for those who have agendas, and who only want to badmouth YE and EAA in general, and who want to see the program disintegrate over this, PLEASE GO AWAY. You have made your positions known. Your input is no longer needed.

[combahee]

Mark, personally I don't have a problem with a background check, sans the SSN. Once they have it who is to know what database I will end up on? Verification of SSN is something for an employer, not a YE pilot.
As I read through the entire plan, as it pertains to YE flights is simply unworkable. It would decimate the ranks of volunteers, prohibit volunteers of the day etc. Some of the rules are confusing and vague. If a pilot has a 2 seat aircraft the parent would need additional warnings. Nothing about a single youngster in a multi seat aircraft. So does that mean a chaperone is needed?
The rules go on to require X number of trained supervisors looking for problems. They aren't to do other jobs at the rally. Where does the EAA think we are going to get these volunteers. What do we do when a single kid or siblings can only make it to the airport on an off day and they fly alone with a pilot? Not all flights are at rallys.
My granddaughter is a YE. No one wants to protect her more than I do. But I would rather sit this out than try to work within unworkable rules and put my financial information out there.
If the EAA had come to us, the chapter presidents and YE coordinator and worked with us then 99% of the pproblems could have been resolved before the announcement.
Also keep in mind these rules apply to all EAA activities. But not all youth activities are the same or have the same risks.
My suggestion to EAA is delete the SSN requirement. I'd bet 90% of those objecting would comply.
Next is to separate the YE program from other youth programs that require more time in contact with youngsters.
Third rethink the background check for volunteers not in direct contact with the kids or minimal contact, such as the wife printing the certificates, the volunteer walking the child to the aircraft etc.
Finally put a notice on a waiver that incidental contact can occur strapping the child in, helping them and out of the aircraft etc.
The whole program needs to be better thought out, this is just a disaster as presented.

[AcroGimp]

At this point, I am noting that for the most part, the biggest objection many have is the submission of the Social Security Number as part of the background check. I submitted mine, but here is my question: if they got rid of that requirement, would more of you reconsider and take the training, and take the background check? If they only asked for your name, address, etc., and no SSN? Otherwise you would put up with the new rules, no matter how infuriating they may seem? I ask because I don't want to see the ranks of YE pilots depleted and my own local YE program destroyed. LET'S LOOK FOR A SOLUTION.
And, as for those who have agendas, and who only want to badmouth YE and EAA in general, and who want to see the program disintegrate over this, PLEASE GO AWAY. You have made your positions known. Your input is no longer needed.

Sorry, you don't control content on the board - if EAA wants to censor that is their prerogative as owners of the site, you, not so much.

My objection is to the WHOLE THING so removing the SSN requirement would not change my opinion/opposition. YE has worked so well for the past 23 years specifically because of its' light beaurocratic burden in my opinion. Anyone who wanted to be a part could be a part, and it took very little in terms of paperwork or administration.

None of us who are objecting to this are bad mouthing the YE program itself, WE ARE THE YOUNG EAGLES PROGRAM - we are objecting to a heavy-handed, poorly thought out and even less well executed reactionary decision that 'came down from on high' and the subsequent 'take it or leave it / our way or the highway / don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out' attitude from HQ and apologists like yourself.

The specific example you provided would have not been discovered by this program, and that is, near as I can tell, the closest thing to an actual 'problem' YE has had after 23 YEARS and flying almost 2 MILLION kids. Add in the goofball who, gasp, took the kids to lunch, and you still have no actual examples of what this new requirement is ostensibly to prevent, ever actually occurring, over 23 years with again, almost 2 million kids.

I don't want to see YE disintegrate, but it is actually happening, sent my e-mail to our local coordinator this morning telling him I will no longer be involved. It is happengin not because we are not committed to the mission, but because HQ has created an undue and unnecessary burden, on top of everything else we already put up with, and done so on a way that many of us, rightly or wrongly, are interpreting as either insulting, or as a massively indefensible overreach that exposes critical personal information to potential misuse/abuse of theft.

I hope that HQ hears these concerns and either abandons this ridiculous plan, or significantly modifies it in such a way as to respond the real concerns expressed.

'Gimp

[Auburntsts]

At this point, I am noting that for the most part, the biggest objection many have is the submission of the Social Security Number as part of the background check. I submitted mine, but here is my question: if they got rid of that requirement, would more of you reconsider and take the training, and take the background check? If they only asked for your name, address, etc., and no SSN? Otherwise you would put up with the new rules, no matter how infuriating they may seem? I ask because I don't want to see the ranks of YE pilots depleted and my own local YE program destroyed. LET'S LOOK FOR A SOLUTION.

For me absolutely. I have no problem with the program per se after having been involved in Scouting with my son for many years. I think that is who EAA should be modeling their program after. Until they get this background BS fixed I'm out.

[CraigCantwell]

Mark, besides the SSN problem, the rules as written are way out of proportion to what is needed. We have some under 18 year old members in our chapter. Under this set of rules, should their parents not attend, there are written permission requirements, record keeping that must be done and we must dedicate 4 cleared members to forgo meeting participation to oversee the under 18 members. Oh yeah, and if one the minors gets so much as a paper cut during the time they are at the meeting, it has to be reported to national.

The policy right now, is badly written, unwieldy and mostly unworkable unless a chapter has a significant number of members. What is worse, is that this was sprung on us with no discussion or input and developed by people that seem to have no good grasp on reality or common sense. The first we heard of it was the 20th of this month. It needs to be pulled back and rewritten so that it can be a workable policy rather than this monstrosity.

[vaflier]

Mark, if they delete the need for a SSNumber and any other extraneous data I for one will gladly have the background check done. I very much enjoy the Young Eagles flights and gladly donate my fuel , aircraft and time. I am all for doing what can be reasonably done to protect young people from the degenerates that exist in our society. As a Foster Parent I have seen the devastation abuse can cause. Including one young man trying to committ suicide multiple times as a result of abuse. Having said that I also believe we have to be careful not to go to far and to implement programs in the best possible way, to cause the least intrusion on peoples lives, especially volunteers. This is were the EAA has messed up and they do need to fix it. There is still time to correct this and I truly hope management will see their mistake and fix it Pronto.

[ssmdive]

And, as for those who have agendas, and who only want to badmouth YE and EAA in general, and who want to see the program disintegrate over this, PLEASE GO AWAY. You have made your positions known. Your input is no longer needed.

You have pretty much been the only individual bad mouthing other individuals. We brought forth issues and you ridiculed us for them. I ask again: Ever have your ID stolen? Because if you have not, then you are talking out of pure ignorance about how big of a deal getting your ID stolen is. Instead, you have insulted and belittled anyone that did not agree with you, yet tried to blame everyone else for the failure of dialog.

As I stated before, in clear and plain English... If I have to submit my SSN to the EAA so I can volunteer my time.... There is no way in hell I am going to participate.

As I emailed the EAA: What is the EAA going to do if their vendor loses my data and my ID is stolen? Are they going to help me deal with the creditors? Are they going to help me deal with the police? Are they going to help hire a lawyer to fix my credit? Are they going to compensate me for any loss?

Once they require my data - They then become responsible for the care of that data. But I know that the EAA is not going to stand behind and take care of any issue that comes from requiring my data.

In addition:
1. The EAA seems to have forgotten who they work for. They seem to think we work for them as opposed to them working for the membership.

2. The 'solution' at best is a heavy handed over reaction.

3. While the EAA claims to have asked for input, it seems they only asked for input from selected people and not the membership at large... Again, see point #1.

4. The unintended consequences of this action will create a significant burden on the people who *volunteer* their time. It is difficult to find people willing to spend time to run events like this and you have just added additional burdens to anyone willing to participate.

So before you start slinging blame at everyone else... Maybe you should look at the people who ACTUALLY DID THIS ACTION and stop making excuses for them.

Lastly, you can't insult and belittle people and then blame them for not participating in a 'discussion' when that 'discussion' is nothing more than you insulting them.

You want to have a discussion? Drop the attitude that everyone else is wrong.

[tomkk]

fwiw, independent of EAA policy, although they can't require you to provide your SSN, doctors, dentists and others who simply won't provide their service without your SSN, have already pretty much provided potential compromise of our data. Freezing your credit reports will go a long way towards protecting you against identity theft. Unfreeze it if/when you need credit yourself. We did that years ago when it became clear that our data was out there and no one was interested in adequately protecting it.

[jgnunn]

You have pretty much been the only individual bad mouthing other individuals. We brought forth issues and you ridiculed us for them. I ask again: Ever have your ID stolen? Because if you have not, then you are talking out of pure ignorance about how big of a deal getting your ID stolen is. Instead, you have insulted and belittled anyone that did not agree with you, yet tried to blame everyone else for the failure of dialog.

As I stated before, in clear and plain English... If I have to submit my SSN to the EAA so I can volunteer my time.... There is no way in hell I am going to participate.

As as I emailed the EAA: What is the EAA going to do if their vendor loses my data and my ID is stolen? Are they going to help me deal with the creditors? Are they going to help me deal with the police? Are they going to help hire a lawyer to fix my credit? Are they going to compensate me for any loss?

Once they require my data - They then become responsible for the care of that data. But I know that the EAA is not going to stand behind and take care of any issue that comes from requiring my data.

In addition:
1. The EAA seems to have forgotten who they work for. They seem to think we work for them as opposed to them working for the membership.

2. The 'solution' at best is a heavy handed over reaction.

3. While the EAA claims to have asked for input, it seems they only asked for input from selected people and not the membership at large... Again, see point #1.

4. The unintended consequences of this action will create a significant burden on the people who *volunteer* their time. It is difficult to find people willing to spend time to run events like this and you have just added additional burdens to anyone willing to participate.

So so before you start slinging blame at everyone else... Maybe you should look at the people who ACTUALLY DID THIS ACTION and stop making excuses for them.

Lastly, you can't insult and belittle people and then blame them for not participating in a 'discussion' when that 'discussion' is nothing more than you insulting them.

You want to have a discussion? Drop the attitude that everyone else is wrong.

+1!
Stop mouthing off, and listen to the TREND of the posts - not individual posts, then you might realize that there actually might be real issues that need to be addressed.