Concealed Weapon Carry and Aviation

[Bob Dingley]

As a non-military commercial pilot flying presumably for a private company(unless it was Air America), what places were you flying to that required the need for armed security?

In the case of the Alaskan guys, there were the bears (Polar and grizzly). As for us guys in the lower 48, every so often we were told "We need you to RON in New Orleans." BTW, a very large percentage of our pilots were and are ex-military. When I was 19, the USMC permitted me to keep a loaded fire arm in my fox hole.

Bob

[Byron J. Covey]

As a non-military commercial pilot flying presumably for a private company(unless it was Air America), what places were you flying to that required the need for armed security?

That is why one carries - one never knows when it will be needed.


BJC

[67jwbruce]

I do carry when I fly sometimes. Any towered airports you are likely to go into have a GA side and a commercial side, even if they are in the same building. Use common sense when it comes to 'no gun' signs just like you would anywhere. I'm not planning on surviving an emergency landing in a flooded rice field just to have to say to the poisonous snakes "Aww, you guys leave me alone, I don't have my gun today - was headed to big yank international..." And as far a proper training... How'd you get proper training for flying? You did a lot of it. You want proper training for using and carrying a gun, same thing, you need to do a lot of both carrying and using it.

[FlyingRon]

You can't rely on sigs. For example, in Virginia it is illegal to carry even into the pre-security side of commercial air terminals. There are a few smaller regional served facilities where the FBO and the commercial air terminal are one and the same.

[Frank Giger]

As to why a charter crew would carry firearms in the role of security guard, that would depend on their cargo, I reckon. They might be required to sit on it during transport.

The whole converstation, though, speaks to a unique feature of the pilot community: strict adherence to the rules.

I'm all in favor of following aviation rules - 99.9% of them are there for very good reasons, put in place after others suggested them with their blood. We tend to, as a group, try very hard to stay within all of them, as blowing off one rule is the first step to recklessness.

However, we seem to be overly legalistic at times, confusing things we shouldn't do with things we can't. Airplanes shouldn't be fueled inside a hangar. But they can be. One should never fly without their pilot's certificate on their person (or in their aircraft), but the airplane will work either way, and a pilot can in fact fly an aircraft without the document.

On the matter of CCW's, if the pistol is concealed and one never displays or speaks of it, who's to know? It's not part of a ramp check list (that very rare happening everyone seems deathly afraid of). If one is asking if they could potentially violate a rule (and it can vary from FBO to FBO and state to state) then they probably shouldn't carry - why make one's self uncomfortable? For others who carry daily and think of a pistol as a normal part of their wardrobe, I'd say they won't worry about it either way.

[FlyingRon]

I'm all in favor of following aviation rules - 99.9% of them are there for very good reasons, put in place after others suggested them with their blood. We tend to, as a group, try very hard to stay within all of them, as blowing off one rule is the first step to recklessness.

You say this and then you pooh pooh the rules that were earned in blood that you don't happen to lik.

However, we seem to be overly legalistic at times, confusing things we shouldn't do with things we can't. Airplanes shouldn't be fueled inside a hangar. But they can be.

This one I agree with. Not only is it dangerous to you, it's dangerous to the safety of personnel and property in hangar (and those adjacent). Not fueling inside the hangar is right up there with not smoking while you're fueling.

On the matter of CCW's, if the pistol is concealed and one never displays or speaks of it, who's to know? It's not part of a ramp check list (that very rare happening everyone seems deathly afraid of).

The FAA is not going to be the problem so much as local law enforcement. I've had conversations with LEOs at small airports on any number of occasions (without issues). In some states you are required to disclose you are carrying concealed. If whatever situation ever does get escalated, it's an easy conviction to show you carried into an area specifically precluded by law even if they can't nail you on anything else.

If one is asking if they could potentially violate a rule (and it can vary from FBO to FBO and state to state)

FBO rules are of lesser consequence than state laws which will result in criminal prosecution.

For others who carry daily and think of a pistol as a normal part of their wardrobe, I'd say they won't worry about it either way.

For many of us who carry regularly and lawfully, we are cognizant of the state laws for any state we travel through. It's part of the responsibility of carrying a gun just like you have the responsibility to know the FARs, stay out of TFRS, etc...

[Frank Giger]

It's a matter of thinking about the why of a rule rather than just following them.

Even on a short cross country to airfields I'm familiar with, I check for NOTAMs. Not because it's a rule, but because even on a familiar airport things can change - like a strip being closed for maintenance.

A couple years ago I drove to Kansas and Missouri from Alabama. I carried my pistol. Part of my trip put me through the tip of Illinois. My CCW is NOT recognized in Illinois (but is in both Kansas and Missouri). What to do? My answer was to just drive through that corner of the state and not worry about it.

I agree that one should know the laws from various states as it relates to firearms. From there one can make a decision, just as one does on when and when not to carry.

[1600vw]

I always wondered, if its Conceal Carry, how does anyone know you are carrying? If the sign says no guns allowed, and its concealed, how do they know you have a gun if it's concealed? Open carry I can understand. But if its concealed who knows? I have friends who have carried guns everywhere they go and have for over 30 years. No one is the wiser. Why because they are concealed.

[FlyingRon]

Read my response above. In most cases you are right, but I'm not risking a criminal prosecution based on the fact that nobody will notice my weapon. There are times when it might get noticed even despite attempts to keep it concealed. If you have some otherwise innocuous run in with the police, them detecting an illegal firearm on you now rises it to the level of arrest and prosecution.

[WLIU]

Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/ for info on concealed carry in all states. Kept pretty up to date.

General aviation airports in most of the country are generally low crime areas. But as noted above, there are other hazards. I have had a series of relatively intimate conversations with our local black bears. They have always conceded my point, but having bear spray and a firearm helps add confidence to my side of the discussion. And when I fly further north to where the density of people goes way down, my kit includes a firearm, for both survival and signalling.

So having a firearm at the airport, and in your ship, can make a lot of sense depending on your airport. But Air Carrier Airports have places where firearms can get you into hot water and you should know where those are.

And I practice regularly. No good unless you can hit what you aim at.

Best of luck,

Wes