What is actual text of PBOR2?

[miket52]

“Ron Wanttaja

Land o' mighty, Mike, do you think anyone outside aviation truly *cares* about pilots' rights? The only reason PBOR exists is because the FAA ticked off a very powerful Senator. They're not going to make that mistake again...and if Inhofe's current effort fails (despite being 95% of what we need, never mind what we want) there's no chance a "more free" bill will ever make it as far.”



Yes I certainly do think people outside aviation care about pilots rights. But not necessarily in a positive light.


The FAA probably has a different take on that situation. You can't possibly know what they're thinking nor can anyone else on the outside.


This bill is definitely not 95% of what the members signed up for. As a matter of fact it is 0% of what the members signed up for. The members sent letters supporting the drivers license medical. That means that those who paid the freight for the Washington hobnobbing are not getting their money's worth. Again no medical means no medical.

[miket52]

“Ron Wanttaja
Unless the bill deals with the price and availability of beer, John Q. Public isn't going to provide any educated input.”



You my friend are not only a shill, you are a bigot.

[cub builder]

Mike52,

I suggest reading all of the statement put out by AOPA in their Weekly Newsrag. Some of the answers you seek are there. They may not be the answers you want, but that doesn't make them not true.

The fact is, POBR2 wasn't going to pass in it's original form. The language was modified in order to satisfy a number of senators and congressmen that would not support it unless pilots have some kind of medical oversight. You may not be getting what you wanted. I wish it didn't have to go through as this either. But we will be lucky to get this much, and what was originally proposed was going to die on the vine.

From what I've seen, Ron W. has been right on the money here and quite reasonable. Would you rather see nobody get anything because the part you need was dropped in order to get enough support to have the bill considered??? Do you think any of us are happy about the modified language? You don't have to support the current bill, but doesn't that make you just as narrow minded as those that refused to support the original version you wanted passed? The person you have been attacking loses in this version of the bill as well. The difference is that he seems to be looking at the bigger picture. Your concerns appear to be limited to a much narrower scope.

-Cub Builder

[67jwbruce]

I don't see that anything Ron has said rises to the level of personal attacks, in fact the only personal attacks I see here can be found in Post #42 and #35. Perhaps Ron is exceptionally skilled at button pushing, but that's a stretch, it appears to me that Mike52 is just looking for a fight.

[rwanttaja]

You my friend are not only a shill, you are a bigot.

Heh, heh... NOW who's making personal attacks? It's apparently OK for you to call me names, but not OK for me to call you names.

Fortunate, then, that I never called you names....

According to EAA's latest summary, there will not be a "form" for the doctor to fill out. You'll have to put a hand-entry in your own logbook. Your personal physician won't get involved...won't even have to know that you're a pilot. He'll say, "let's get your condition under control" with no knowledge that it affects your airworthiness.”

You have absolutely no way of knowing that this is how it will go down. Again this bill has not even gone to the House of Representatives yet where it is bound to undergo changes. There are a lot more people in the House of Representatives that will want particular changes before they sign on as sponsors. So again you have no idea of how this will shake out in the end. Without a doubt the wording will change.

Perfectly true, but there's no way to presume it'll go in the OTHER direction, either. We don't know what the final form of the bill is going to be. I summarized the current state of the bill.

It may change, but it really depends on whether anyone can get motivated enough to, essentially, poison the bill. AMA should be partially mollified; we're still required to see doctors. ALPA...who *knows* what their original motivation was.

From the point POBR2 passes, you'll need to take an online medical refresher every two years, and see your own physician every four years and log the fact of the visit in your own logbook.”

You don't know this to be true. The bill hasn't even gone to the House of Representatives yet where it is bound to go through some changes. You can't possibly know what it will look like when it comes out the other end and neither can anyone else.

See above.

If you develop a specific disqualifying condition, you'll need to obtain ONE special issuance, and from that point on, monitoring by your own doctor is all that will be necessary.”

How will anyone know you have developed a disqualifying condition if according to you their personal doctor will not have to submit a form.

Yes, exactly. We're expected to self-report. It's a great solution; we retain the freedom of the original PBOR while adding this reporting clause to mollify the senators who wanted there still to be ways to disqualify a pilot medically. It'll be interesting to see if this provision remains.

(referring to people flying now without medicals, or non-qualified personnel performing maintenance on certified aircraft)...Nothing I recommend, mind you. But there'll be no additional enforcement with the new rules, and even LESS evidence to carry with you (or be caught without).”

This is not only illegal is a totally wrongheaded thought process. Who in their right mind would continually fly illegally and take the chance on losing everything.

"Everything"? I don't think that's the case. I don't believe the FAA is allowed to impound the aircraft (ground it, yes, take possession, no). There are civil fines, but don't believe the typical amount runs that all high.

Of course, pilots are notoriously cheap. My last run-in with the law was an $80 speeding ticket fifteen years ago, and it still rankles.

The counterpoint is that the potential for getting caught appears very low, and that will affect how many people push the envelope. Like I said, no one but the CFI administering a BFR has asked to see my medical since I soloed, 45-odd years ago.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

I don't see that anything Ron has said rises to the level of personal attacks, in fact the only personal attacks I see here can be found in Post #42 and #35. Perhaps Ron is exceptionally skilled at button pushing, but that's a stretch, it appears to me that Mike52 is just looking for a fight.

Mike is upset, and his personal disappointment is understandable. I'm a convenient target, that's all.

Ron Wanttaja

[wyoranch]

Mike is upset, and his personal disappointment is understandable. I'm a convenient target, that's all.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron,
I am upset can I hammer you as well? lol I wonder if Glory is wondering what she got herself into now?
Rick

[rwanttaja]

Ron,
I am upset can I hammer you as well?

Shoot, Rick, everybody ELSE does... :-)

Ron 'Punching Bag' Wanttaja

[wyoranch]

Shoot, Rick, everybody ELSE does... :-)

Ron 'Punching Bag' Wanttaja

Now that is funny......

[67jwbruce]

Ron,
I am upset can I hammer you as well? lol I wonder if Glory is wondering what she got herself into now?
Rick

Hurry, sing her one of them songs before she asks for a promotion