What is actual text of PBOR2?

[cub builder]

Mike is upset, and his personal disappointment is understandable. I'm a convenient target, that's all.

Ron Wanttaja

I think you just nailed it. I can feel his disappointment in having his hope of flying again pulled out from under him. It sucks and I feel his pain. But this is our best chance to get something out of this rather than an all or nothing battle that we would ultimately lose. It's in Congress where a lot of compromises happen, so hang on. More changes and amendments could happen; both good and bad.

-Cub Builder

[Byron J. Covey]

“Ron Wanttaja

Land o' mighty, Mike, do you think anyone outside aviation truly *cares* about pilots' rights? The only reason PBOR exists is because the FAA ticked off a very powerful Senator. They're not going to make that mistake again...and if Inhofe's current effort fails (despite being 95% of what we need, never mind what we want) there's no chance a "more free" bill will ever make it as far.”



Yes I certainly do think people outside aviation care about pilots rights. But not necessarily in a positive light.


The FAA probably has a different take on that situation. You can't possibly know what they're thinking nor can anyone else on the outside.


This bill is definitely not 95% of what the members signed up for. As a matter of fact it is 0% of what the members signed up for. The members sent letters supporting the drivers license medical. That means that those who paid the freight for the Washington hobnobbing are not getting their money's worth. Again no medical means no medical.

miket52:

Can you summarize, in a sentence or two, just what you expect the EAA and the AOPA to do?

Thanks,


BJC

[lynnlpitts]

This isn't what I worked so hard for...another Sell Out by EAA and AOPA...the FAA will make the Special Issuance impossible to get and we will risk Sport Pilot privileges to obtain it...Funny it doesn't take 100% of the Senators to past taxes and encumbrances and the process only takes a few days...this medical issue 'slight of hand' has been going on for years!

[JimRice85]

Everything I've heard and seen agrees with what Ron has said. I can certainly appreciate the disappointment of many though. This isn't what all had hoped for, but it is going to be a pretty big change for many.

I understand and as I just rolled the dice and went through the SI process. I went in well armed after consulting with a Senior AME who does nothing but FAA flight physicals. Had he not told me he was 99% certain I would be issued! I would have likely stayed Light Sport, though it wasn't what I wanted. It was a scary process, but over 98% are issued. The fear of being the 2% is terrifying thought to most of us.

What at really needs to change is a denial eliminating Sport Pilot privileges, IMHO.

[wyoranch]

Jim,
i completely agree with you about the 'fail the medical and you are done for good' reform. I for one would sell a kidney to fund my SI if there was no fear of never flying again as a sport pilot. Is one kidney a disqualifying condition? Kidding!
rick

[rwanttaja]

Jim,
i completely agree with you about the 'fail the medical and you are done for good' reform.

To quote the immortal Curly (of the Three Stooges): "Me three." The "Pass or you can't fly at all" provision is a bit draconian. Would be nice if they eased up on it.

Certain conditions disqualify you for flight under any provisions, and, I think, the problem is that once the FAA finds out about them, they have to take action. If a guy has a disqualifying condition but doesn't formally bring it to the FAA's attention (via a medical application), they don't officially know about it so they don't have to react.

Still, the whole purpose of the Light Sport aircraft definition was to produce slower, lighter airplanes. These slower, lighter machines will cause less damage in a crash, so the risk to those outside the aircraft is less. Seems like the FAA would be able to back off a a bit.

If PBOR2 passes in its current form, the pilot and his own doctor are responsible for ensuring the pilot's fitness for flight. This is true even if a pilot has a nominally disqualifying condition...that is, once he or she receives a SA, all further monitoring is just by the pilot's physician.

With that logic in place, seems like the FAA might be able to stop banning pilots from flying as Sport Pilots if they have a (third-class medical) disqualifying condition.... with the provision, for example, that Sport Pilots with nominally disqualifying conditions log doctor visits every four years, like the medical requirements under the new program.

Will it happen? I dunno. One advantage is that Sport Pilot is not a "law", it's policy defined by the FAA and thus can be RE-defined if the FAA chooses. It'd be nice if the EAA went into Sport Pilot reform after PBOR2 is enacted (when and if). Seems like they'd need another windmill to tilt at once PBOR2 gets clear.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

This isn't what I worked so hard for...another Sell Out by EAA and AOPA...the FAA will make the Special Issuance impossible to get and we will risk Sport Pilot privileges to obtain it...Funny it doesn't take 100% of the Senators to past taxes and encumbrances and the process only takes a few days...

To quote another old dead guy, "The only sure things in life are death and taxes...and you don't see death getting worse every time Congress meets!"

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike M]

Fear not that this latest revision will pass as proposed. The most recent posts here explain why. Discontent and controversy. This will percolate through the 114th session (campaign contribution address .................) with discussion, amendments, press releases (membership renewal address .............) more discussion, letters calls and faxes to representatives (campaign contributions address ...............) and be appended to "must-pass" bills then stripped before passage until the midnight hour when Congress adjourns and don't worry it will be reintroduced as the first item of business in the 115th session (campaign contribution address ............) because our strong alphabet organizations (membership renewal address .............) will ensure each candidate is individually apprised how essential, such that our collective voice will be heard when we vote as a monolithic bloc on this litmus test issue. All 593, 499 of us scattered all over the country. Oh, except ALPA members, of course, who will vote in lockstep with their demon union thug bosses to ground all octogenarians and kill blue eyed babies.

(Campaign contribution and membership renewal addresses ................ and ....................)

In case you can't tell this ain't my first rodeo. Lighten up, folks, it's gonna get worse before it gets .......well, keep sending in those cards and letters.

[phavriluk]

If PBOR2 passes in its current form, the pilot and his own doctor are responsible for ensuring the pilot's fitness for flight. This is true even if a pilot has a nominally disqualifying condition...that is, once he or she receives a SA, all further monitoring is just by the pilot's physician.


Ron Wanttaja

As some of us have been hammering on for a few days now, this is not true. If you don't have a medical newer than ten years, or have never had one, you get to go through the field of mousetraps and gotcha's that now passes for medical issuance. And go to the not-cheap expense and risk of special issuance, and never flying anything again if the AME flunks you for a condition that would not be evident if that applicant was flying light sport.

[rwanttaja]

As some of us have been hammering on for a few days now, this is not true. If you don't have a medical newer than ten years, or have never had one, you get to go through the field of mousetraps and gotcha's that now passes for medical issuance. And go to the not-cheap expense and risk of special issuance, and never flying anything again if the AME flunks you for a condition that would not be evident if that applicant was flying light sport.

Yes, I understand that. My topic was Sport Pilot, not the general PBOR issue. What I was trying to do was sketch out a path that would implement a method to allow people who flunk normal medicals to still retain Sport Pilot privileges. The case I stated ("If PBOR2 passes in its current form, the pilot and his own doctor are responsible for ensuring the pilot's fitness for flight") was intended to show what the steady-state situation would be under PBOR2, after the transition period.

Ron Wanttaja