Building a Nieuport 11...

[Frank Giger]

When I regaled them the tale of the first flight, this was the response via email:

Sounds like an average DawnPatrol taxi test. You are sticking pretty close to the norm for our world. Exciting isn't it? Made me smile and laugh-out-loud reading your exploits and remembering our first flights. The thrill of that first take-off (never on purpose) is just hard to describe.

I've had the privilege of meeting and talking with the KC Dawn Patrol guys at length a couple times, and they're all fantastic (though sadly, Tom Glaeser Went West). The funny thing is that there isn't advice to give other than "just keep flying." That and every one of them seems to have a different learning curve to tackle. It's transition training without any real instruction, as you well know in your own single seat aircraft. One can be talked to, but there isn't an IP to say "no, no, not like that!" while you're flying the aircraft.

[rwanttaja]

I've had the privilege of meeting and talking with the KC Dawn Patrol guys at length a couple times, and they're all fantastic (though sadly, Tom Glaeser Went West). The funny thing is that there isn't advice to give other than "just keep flying." That and every one of them seems to have a different learning curve to tackle. It's transition training without any real instruction, as you well know in your own single seat aircraft. One can be talked to, but there isn't an IP to say "no, no, not like that!" while you're flying the aircraft.

Hmmmm. Sounds like the Nieuport community needs someone like a Budd Davisson or Ed Kolano to fly one of the airplanes for a bit and develop some pilot notes.

I ran "Nieuport" through my homebuilt accident database. Not all of them were the CIRCA/Aerodrome type designs, of course, but the majority of them were VW powered. I also ran "Team", "Fly Baby," and "RV-3" as fellow single-seaters. Curiously, they all had about the same number of accidents over the ~17 years my database runs: 15 each for the Nieuports and Fly Babies, and 17 each for the RV-3 and the Team. And, of course, I had the overall database to compare them to.

One third of the Nieuport accidents occurred on the first flight, vs. 6.3% of all homebuilts. That's a pretty significant difference. Two-thirds of the Nieuport accidents occur within the first 40 hours, vs. 19.5% of the overall homebuilts. Of course, most homebuilts have more than one seat, and pilots can get some stick time before their first flight.

The TEAM line of aircraft have almost identical statistics (35.7% of the accidents on the first flight). But the stats for other single-seaters are lower. A bit over 9% of Fly Baby accidents occur on the first flight...although, of course, as an older design, there were probably fewer Fly Babies making their first flights in the 1998-2014 period. However, half of the Fly Baby accidents occurred to what were probably purchasers of the aircraft (they had fewer hours Time in Type than the aircraft), and none occurred on their first flights.

It was a similar story for RV-3s...again, an older design, but no first-flight accidents were found in the 17-year time period.

Of course, this was *reported* accidents. I've heard a lot of "broken wheel" stories from the Nieuport crowd, and those generally don't seem to get very serious.

The good news is the fatality rate: About 25% of homebuilt accidents involve fatalities, but the percentage is way down for the Nieuports: 6.7%.

I've attached a PDF with a summary of the data.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

One third of the Nieuport accidents occurred on the first flight, vs. 6.3% of all homebuilts.

Statements like this get mis-interpreted a LOT, and I wanted to make sure what I'm saying is clear:

The statement means, "One-third of Nieuports that suffer a reportable accident are on their first flight."

It does NOT mean that one third of all Nieuports crash on their first flight. It is a percentage of the aircraft that have accidents, NOT the overall fleet.

Ron Wanttaja

[Dana]

Well, that was an "exciting" takeoff!

Are you allowed to fly off the grass at your airport? That would be a lot more forgiving.

Dana

[Sam Buchanan]

Wow........calling that a take-off is a stretch of semantics........glad you and your plane survived that one.Remember, the VW rotates the opposite way compared to a Continental. LEFT rudder is needed to hold the centerline.

[Frank Giger]

Ron, I interpreted it the way you meant it - I did my time as a analyst and learned the values and pitfalls of statistics - and it's not surprising. The fatal accident was on a first flight as well.

What is happening is with the stick neutral that she's entering flight from the three point stance, and with the tail wheel the authority in yaw until that moment there's no chance to apply left rudder to counter-act the p-factor...and a visit to the side of the runway (or off of it, as we've seen).

It's instructive that on my first flight I had something similar but much less dramatic. Because I had spooled up to that point gradually, when I pushed through the flight speed I popped the tail up and applied rudder quickly enough to get just a little lateral displacement relative to the center line.

The cautions against raising the tail too soon are over stated, I think. It's become clear some forward stick is necessary from the start, allowing the tail to come up on its own as airspeed builds and the pilot (me) to apply left rudder, correct the yaw. Once she's past the initial take off speed, one can see she pretty much flys on rails.

[rwanttaja]

Ron, I interpreted it the way you meant it - I did my time as a analyst and learned the values and pitfalls of statistics - and it's not surprising.

Good, glad you read it right. I've had cases where magazine editors interpreted it wrong, and it gets embarrassing....

What is happening is with the stick neutral that she's entering flight from the three point stance, and with the tail wheel the authority in yaw until that moment there's no chance to apply left rudder to counter-act the p-factor...and a visit to the side of the runway (or off of it, as we've seen).

Had a similar case back when I was first flying the original Fly Baby. It had a modified tailwheel horn for controlling a water rudder when on floats, and the "gearing" was different than the aerodynamic effect of the aircraft rudder. So when the tail came up, the nose went left as I wasn't holding enough rudder.

Assuming you've got the direct connection to the rudder bar, sounds like a longer horn on the tailwheel might help. Though you'll probably get accustomed to it faster than it would take to add a new horn....

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

I contemplated cheating a bit and rigging up a control horn at the wheel that was a little off-set - when the wheel tracks straight the rudder is a bit to the left - but then it dawned on me that the crutch for take off would be a big baseball bat to the head on landing.

And that's the part that has me scratching my head a bit.

On my first landing I was under power and (with all candor and no puffery) was a greaser. Tail low, mains kissed the runway, pulled the rest of the power, and the tailwheel went down the short distance for a straight roll.

In the second flight, I'm reaching for the ground and got the typical bounce. From there I just committed to it since she was still going straight and I had some airspeed and did the Three Wheel Dance. The crazy thing is look at the directional stability - she's running straight on! At no time did I think she'd do anything squirrelly.

Almost all of my time flying has been touch-and-goes. I knew that I'd be building a quirky tail wheel with a very short wheel base and so going round and round in a Champ seemed like the best thing to do for my skill set. Plus I absolutely love shooting touch-and-goes.

[Frank Giger]

Hmmm, grist for the mill:



I swear when I get this down I'm going to put it all in writing and beg Robert Baslee to put it on his site.

[Frank Giger]

I have seen into the future, and it is clear. Compression springs are simply a fate that cannot be denied.



Quick! To the Aircraft Spruce website, away with me! Anon comes the day with blue above with winds amiable to my designs, and I must sail!*

More seriously, the brain trust of Nieuport pilots is being slow to add their input, largely because their answer is "grass" and by the time they hit pavement they had a bunch of hours in their planes. None of the other Nieuports I've seen has springs on the cables!

That and I've not found the sweet spot for throttle control at take-off. They're spooling up more smoothly than I have (too slow the first time, too fast the second), and that's a big part of it.

And of course it's often hard to put into words what one does by feel.

Add in that every homebuilt is a one-off, so what is best on their airplane might not be the best in mine.

So my little Babette is grounded once again while I wait on parts. Not to say there isn't other things that need attention. The little tab of fabric over the inner right aileron hinge needs glued down, the brakes need some TLC, the ASI needs to find something other than a vacuum on the static tube (I moved it and got the opposite effect, gaining 10 mph), and there's always the gun that needs mounting.

Still, I'm totally jazzed at how the airplane turned out! Of all the issues to have to deal with, I'd pick the take off roll over all the others in the flight profile!

* I actually think this way most of the time.