Building a Nieuport 11...

[pittsdriver3]

Frank a question. On your aileron control horns it looks like you there is a hole out on the end but you connected the control rods closer to the yoke. Is that in the plans or did you do that to get more aileron throw? Don

[Frank Giger]

A bit of both.

The plans show a hole there, so I drilled one there when I as drilling the horns to fit the rod that the ailerons attach to. Mostly because making holes in the big aluminum part of the horns was puckerful - only one shot to get them right with no do-overs or fixes; the only solution is to get another horn! So because it was easy I did it as a sort of reward for myself.

Like a lot of the plans, the location of the hole wasn't mandated but a mark of minimum distance from the end for safety, a "no closer than this from the end."

Similarly, the location of the control horn on the column isn't given by measurement. It's implied that they're placed a bit forward of center by the drawing, so I starting looking at where it fit on the fuselage for ease of travel and would be under my knees when seated - largest allowable travel. The ailerons don't need any sort of stop when one is in the aircraft; legs will work fine for that. In the plans, for example, the aileron control rods have a part numbers for the tubes and attachments, a basic shape and "as required" written for lengths.

When I spoke to Mr. Baslee he confirmed that getting the most throw is more important than putting them at the end as pictured, so I choked them up on the horn.

The Airdrome Airplanes and the Graham Lee Nieuports are kind of odd in how each evolved as plans. The actual Nieuport 17 is really just a larger version of the Nieuport 11, with some refinements to allow for a larger engine and an interrupter gear for a machinegun, but they're really the same design. Mr. Lee started with the Nieuport 11 and has in his plans conversion measurements to make it larger to make it a Nieuport 17. Mr. Baslee started with the Nieuport 17 (he made four for the Flyboys movie) and downscaled measurements for the Nieuport 11.* Indeed, my plans have marked out measurements (N17) and N11 ones put above them.

In both cases there are a couple minor teething issues when scaling up or down, like where the hole goes on the horn. In the N17 there's more room for the throw and the arms on the control column are larger; I suspect the hole winds up on the end on them.

The Airdrome Airplanes planes aren't really kits. They're material supplies in basic lengths with the required hardware included and labeled; every tube must be bent and cut to fit (all tubing is a bit longer than required, with very few exceptions. If one had the plans and a material list it could be "plans built." Mr. Baslee won't sell just the plans and doesn't include the master materials list; it's a neat way to both protect intellectual property and put a couple more dollars in his pocket (but not much more; his markup on materials is around two percent overall, and in some cases comes out as less than retail on hardware, reflecting his purchases at wholesale). I don't think one could purchase a spun aluminum cowl for anything less than a third more of what he charges for it - he's shorted himself on the labor there!

* Mr. Baslee refused to make a Nieuport 11 kit while Mr. Lee was still alive out of professional courtesy and respect, which I think is a rare thing in business. Mr. Lee was in many ways a pioneer in tube-and-gusset design, and N11's built from his plans are in the air and proving how he made building a simple, light aircraft could be done by the average Joe using common garage tools.

[Frank Giger]

That stick is going to be remade in wood, btw. It's too kinked up at the bends for comfort. It'll do for now, though.

Chugging along, I realized that the order is fuel tank and then seat, as if I put the seat in first I couldn't fit the tank through the hole and forward!


The fuel tank comes sealed with four fittings ready for drilling and mounting.


These are the bottom two, and the only ones I'll be making holes in.


This is upside down, of course, and the bottom will connect to a drainage line and the one closer to the tank will be the fuel line to the engine.





It's kind of a pucker drill, as one wants to make the hole without letting the bit run over to the threads. The key is to go slow - painfully slow - and let the bit do the all the work a teeny tiny slice at a time.





Rinsed out three times to ensure no shavings are in the tank and hang in place with some bungie cords. What's showing is the two fittings I won't be drilling; they're for running a tube from the tank through the instrument panel as a gas gauge.


I'm going to use a Champ like float gauge for fuel levels instead:


1) Running two more tubes from the tank is two more points of failure.
2) The bottom hole to the side is on the other side of these, and I want it pointing backwards towards me. I'm going to run a line back to the cockpit for a fuel cutoff valve.





I've decided to build a cage for the fuel cell to fit into, and pad it with some pipe insulation.





The problem is that this stuff is awful styrofoamy and will probably get fuel on it. The last thing I want is a bunch of plastic goo sticking to a gas tank that is now shifting around because it dissolved.

Time for some material testing. I cut off a couple sections of it and am letting it soak in gasoline. I figure by tomorrow morning I'll know if it dissolves or degrades in any way.

[Frank Giger]

With foam deciding whether or not it's going to react to petroleum, might as well move onto the seat!

The bottom of the seat's measurements were a function of the distance between the rear of the cockpit and the rear carry-through, as well as the size of my butt. This is where being a 7/8 scale pilot lends a helping hand; it turns out it's about two inches shorter from front to back than a normal kitchen chair.

I used some poster board we had bought for my son's various school projects to make the templates. Hey, community colleges are much cheaper than four year universities and I need a seat for my airplane so it's a win-win as far as I can see.

It's not flat at the back, but that's okay as it's actually wider than I need and I fit on it well.

For the rear I used pictures from the original Nieuport plans supplied by a couple real replica experts as a guide, altering the measurements slightly to better fit the bottom of the seat.



Refine the line to make curves from the measurements and cut.



Fold it over on the center line, draw and cut for mirrored sides.



Duct tape the back to the seat for a look. The top center of the back isn't flat because I folded it there, and I think I'll refine that initial curve downwards to be more gentle.



Looks pretty good in the cockpit, though!



A couple notes:

1) While I've seen a lot of great seats made from wood as it's supposed to be, I'll be making mine of sheet aluminum reinforced with tubing. It's lighter and much quicker (plus my wood working skills suck).
2) Don't tell my wife where her kitchen scissors went - she's been looking around for them for months now and I've been playing dumb.
3) My Harbor Freight big compass had fallen off the table and into the tarp I use for drainage. I can't believe that as rusted as it is the darned thing still moved freely.

And I have a new ritual of pre-flighting the aircraft every time I go out to work on it or are in the back yard goofing around. I found some paper wasps beginning a nest just inside the rear upper spar today. They're all dead and the nest was just the beginning mount and one cell, but sheesh. So now I will check every tube and opening on the plane for critters before I start any work.

[planecrazzzy]

Think "Lumbar Support"....

The Plane I'm building... the Jegs seats have it...

But my first plane didn't... I added it later.

Those longer flights made me realize how much I needed it...

Here's how I did mine:

http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=4575


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Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dogz
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[Frank Giger]

Hey, that's dead sexy as a solution!

[Chick]

Mr. Giger, I can't tell you how much I am enjoying your thread. I am building this plane with you, vicariously. Probably the only way I'll have the time or skills to do it! She is a beauty. Thank you for taking the time to post your work.

[Frank Giger]

I'm much obliged by your kind words!

[TBailey]

Hey Frank, me too! I just came back from Robert's shop last month. I had some business in Kansas City and couldn't pass up the opportunity. I've been following the Airdrome kits for some time and I was very close to pulling the trigger...then he introduced the SE5a. Be still me heart! Thank you for this photo journal. It is a great help and much appreciated. Please keep it going!

[Frank Giger]

Yep, that SE5a looks a dream!

The builder's assist, known widely as the House of Pain, is not something to pass on. Even one day is like attending ten workshops on metal construction.

On to the seat...

So to bend the 3/4 inch tubing for the back of the seat I pulled out the Huffy Pro Bending Rig and gently went to work using the forward bending assembly (after removing the protective rubber gasket).

It's a little dimpled on the inside, but that won't be a problem.



I annealed and flattened the edge of the tube around the back because I like annealing and pounding things flat and I wasn't confident on making the sharp bend on the mark required.

One inch tubing carried it forward to the end of the seat, which is actually a inch deeper than the paper template. I did a second set of measurements and that inch puts the end right over the carry through and really makes the seat more comfortable.

The side tube and the one on the front are coped to accept the one inch tube that will go down from the corner to the carry-through. A gusset will hold this to the seat when I get to that part.



Support braces across the middle of the seat. The neat thing about doing this in sheet is that the seat itself is one big gusset.



Here's the back template on the seat. Note that the ends don't go around the front (it's that inch I added).



So I just added some to the end and adjusted the curve to fit it on the sheet for the back. This is where that electric metal sheer comes into its own. Followed just outside the lines and sand it down to the right measurements and smoothness.



From here I put a rivet in the center back, with it lowered a little more than an inch from the flat - but flush with the bottom in the front. This tilts the back from the seat to make it more comfortable.


I clamped it in the front after that first center rivet and alternated from one side to the other, working to the front. After I made the bend to the left and right sides of the seat and had a rivet in, I bent the front inwards to hold the seat cushion.

A couple more rivets (including pulling one in the front) and she's a seat!