Smokers Flout The Rules

[miemsed]

Your comments really deserve no response. I have no desire to argue with someone who refuses to use facts I like. Non-pilots should not be subjected to Tetra-Ethyl Lead period. I think Airventure should be banned.

Exactly how you sound.

As an ex-smoker I could have ended up one of two ways: anti-smoking zealot or someone who just didn't care if other people did it. I chose the latter. Do I like smoke? No. Am I going to freak out over trace amounts of it at an outdoor venue? Heck no. Just being around an (100LL) airplane as a pilot exposes me to a more lethally carcinogenic / health debilitating chemical(s) than if a group of smokers lit up around me and took turns intentionally blowing smoke in my face. The exhaust of an AvGas plane is about as healthy as handling ether-acetone (gives you a much larger chance liver cancer) without respirator gear and gloves. Do you wear a respirator designed to filter out TEL (and other trace metals) that exist in AvGas? No? I didn't think so. Heck, you'd probably complain about nicotine vaporizers. While I think some have an obnoxious scents added to them, they are far less toxic (again) than AvGas. You seem to have no grasp of this toxicity concept.

Next, man up bucko. You keep harping about all this "I'm forced to inhale second smoke". Nobody is "forcing" you anymore than the good citizens of Oshkosh are "forced" to inhale trace amounts of TEL from the aircraft. Guess what? It isn't a hearts and flowers world. You want to know some of the really nasty things you take into your body everyday? Just from food & drink? Go look at some of the stuff they ban in the EU that isn't banned here in the US, and even they aren't as psychotic as anti-smoking zealots here when it comes to smoking. Example: I swear, the Dutch don't believe in public ashtrays to put out cigarettes (roll eyes) or enough garbage cans in most places, even at large venue events. No, they just pay a street sweeper to sweep up all the garbage, and that's more than just cigarette butts, after the event (farm market, concert, et al.) is completed.

That's my problem with you: You are a zealot. Heck, even more of a zealot than many "nanny state" loving Europeans. I'll never understand this, and can't explain it, except that you are a person who has no relative understanding about toxicity. I understand you as a zealot feel you have the right to force other people to stop doing what you don't like because it offends thee. My warning to you is don't be surprised if a fellow zealot forces you to stop flying an airplane (or Airventure from existing) because they think they have to right to make you stop using 100LL.

I really am so done with you. Your response above shows why we have a problem with smoking at Airventure. Just to be clear, I believe smoking should be banned at Airventure. I can say that without calling someone who disagrees with me names of any kind.

[JesseD]

I really am so done with you. Your response above shows why we have a problem with smoking at Airventure. Just to be clear, I believe smoking should be banned at Airventure. I can say that without calling someone who disagrees with me names of any kind.

That's because you're arguing from a point of "moral certainty" not facts. Just to be clear: I'm not a fan of smoking, but since I know that simply being around airplanes is far more toxic (TEL heavy metal toxicity) than smoke wafting by, I don't feel the need to tell other people they shouldn't smoke. You are, even if you don't want to see yourself this way, no different than that lady in Arizona who wants the Sedona airport shuttered. I understand you don't like being called out, nobody does, but you are the one putting yourself into the same box. Zero tolerance is for the uninformed. As far as smoking as Airventure, let them have their smoking areas and have security chastise them when they break the rules. I see no need for extremist "solutions" being implemented to appease the scientifically challenged.

[krw920]

. Just to be clear, I believe smoking should be banned at Airventure. I can say that without calling someone who disagrees with me names of any kind.

Smoking IS banned at AirVenture, says so on EVERY wristband, except in designated areas. How would a total ban be enforced any differently that what exists today?

[JesseD]

Smoke IS banned at AirVenture, says so on EVERY wristband, except in designated areas. How would a total ban be enforced any differently that what exists today?

Oh, s/he wants zero tolerance just like MADD. Never mind the fact the rules are broken by a tiny percentage of people overall. Never mind the fact that within that tiny percentage there's an even smaller percentage of the repeat offenders. If it was like alcohol intoxication while driving, most people arrested are well over .10 if I remember properly. Heck many are repeat offenders who are well over .15 by the time they're tested, which means they were even higher before. Damn the facts though, zero tolerance! MADD won't be happy until registering .001 gets your license revoked, the people complaining about "noxious airplane exhaust" won't be happy until GA is banned, and the anti-smokers won't be happy until you can get a fine (or worse) while smoking a cigarette in your own yard because the neighbor smelled a little bit of smoke while barbecuing.

Moral certainty, it's a heck of a drug.

[Tom Steber]

Ok, I'll throw my 2 cents in. I've been coming to Oshkosh since 1970. Haven't missed one yet. I'm also a former smoker. Even when I smoked and was there I either didn't smoke or it was on the other side of the fence. All I can really say is what I've observed first hand over the years and that it's getting worse every year. It's not even so much about all the fuel around and in the aircraft, but I was more worried about someone starting a grass fire that gets out of hand. In case you didn't notice, it was pretty dry this year. I know nothing happened and as far as I know, nothing was damaged either. It's really only a matter of time. I'm all for a total ban of smoking on the grounds. Will that happen? Probably not. But there sure could be a LOT more PA announcements throughout the day. I think I would only hear it said a few times during the airshow portion. Change takes time, especially after they let the genie out of the bottle.

[miemsed]

Smoke IS banned at AirVenture, says so on EVERY wristband, except in designated areas. How would a total ban be enforced any differently that what exists today?

Thanks for asking a reasonable question without name calling. I am happy to respond to this. My feeling is that I have seen the rules are not being followed. Often times the answer is they did not know the flight line or the food vendor seating area is no smoking. Now I agree it is on the wrist bands and it should be clear but some smokers choose to not follow the rules. As I said in a past post, some smokers do follow the rules but many do not and the ones that do not ruin it for all. A total ban, as has been done in many other public areas, removes the I did not know this was a non smoking area excuse, as the entire grounds are non smoking. It is a much easier rule to enforce. That is my opinion and that is what I would vote for if it was ever put to a popular vote.

[Mayhemxpc]

Sorry to change the subject for just a moment, but thought this was a way to get Chris' attention. This is an Avweb video with Osh 15 highlights. Your O2 may be in it and was curious if it was. Go to 54 seconds in.http://www.avweb.com/videos/Video-Al...-224558-1.html

Thanks! That is it. It looks like Wednesday morning taxiing to the restoration station. It is nice that someone thought my plane worth including in this short AirVenture video summary. I would have never seen this without your interruption to the thread. Now back to our regular programming...

[FlyingRon]

I don't think the cause was helped by having certain board members smoking cigars openly on the flight line all the time.

[Byron J. Covey]

I don't think the cause was helped by having certain board members smoking cigars openly on the flight line all the time.

Names?


BJC

[NAA551WB]

As a line service tech I think that smoking needs to be policed better because of a safety issue. Yes there are harmful chemicals in 100LL exhaust, jet exhaust, car exhaust, lawnmower exhuast, weed wacker exhaust, RC exhaust but what it comes down to and I think the majority of you are missing the point is of safety. If someone was smoking near where I was fueling an airplane at my home airport I would be furious to the point of being an asshole. I want to go home at the end of the day.

If you are caught smoking in a non designated smoking area you should have a mark put on your wrist band similar to having your tag clipped at a ski resort. If you are caught again you are out of the event. No excuses. From a safety stand point it should be a no brainer, it's the end of July, the grass can be very dry and all it takes is one cigarette that was thought to be put out and now you have a grass fire sweeping down rows of airplanes filled with high octane fuel. Good God how hard is it to see the danger in that. And also lets keep in mind not only is 100ll in it's liquid form flammable but even more so is the fumes.

I think we can all agree that smoking does not belong on the flight line or near airplanes. When I used to smoke I would go to the designated smoking areas, have my cigarette and dispose of it in a butt can. Not everyone has the courtesy to follow that. If I was one of the fuelers out there I would be irate if I smelled smoke and I've asked people to put out there smoking materials in the past and will continue to do so.

Everyone take a deep breath and I think we can all agree that smoking needs to be policed way better and I certainly hope that the EAA realizes that this is a problem, especially after Monday when even Danny Clisham called out someone he saw smoking from the announcer stand.