Smokers Flout The Rules

[Jim Clark]

No one is forced to smoke, that's absurd. People walk around, not through the designated areas. And besides all of this occurs outside where the smoke dissipates very quickly.

I have never seen anyone smoking around an airplane. And if they did so what! Obviously the big certifieds of the 60's, 70's and 80's (Cessna, etc.) didn't think that was an issue because in the cockpits they had ash trays built into the the arm rests. If you learned to fly in the late 60's on up to the early 80's you trained in 150's, 152's and 172's with ashtrays in them. They were there for smoking IN the plane.

You weren't next to my 39 Waco Cabin on the end of row 63 when 3 a holes lit up within 5 feet of my prop. BAN SMOKING AT AIRVENTURE

[Floatsflyer]

You weren't next to my 39 Waco Cabin on the end of row 63 when 3 a holes lit up within 5 feet of my prop. BAN SMOKING AT AIRVENTURE

........and, what happened!!?? Tell us the rest of the story. Did the a-holes blow up your plane, did they put the butts out on the fabric, did they flick ashes on your beautiful paint job, did they throw the butts into the engine or did they just admire your beautiful baby and move on?

[miemsed]

For the health, safety, and comfort of all residents of Oshkosh, Airventure should be banned until an alternative lead free fuel is in use.

That, my good compatriot, is EXACTLY how you sound. Zero tolerance is for zealots. Zealots have accomplished little, if any, good throughout history.

Thank you for your opinion, and lack of a direct counter-argument. Please feel free to suffer the cancerous (and non-cancerous, but still bad for your health) effects of Tetra-Ethyl lead (TEL) on your body. Who knows, it may be the last one, because some "environmentalist" might sue to ban Airventure because of the effects.

your comments really deserve no response. I have no desire to have a counter argument. Non smokers should not be subjected to second hand smoke period. I think smoking should be banned at Airventure. Why you feel the need to call someone who wants smoking banned at an event names is beyond me. Smoking has been banned in many many public places so I suppose the people responsible for that are Zealots as well right. Grow up. And yes I still believe smoking should be banned at Airventure but note that I understand you feel it is a smokers right to force second hand smoke on others. Does that make you a zealot? This thread should now be closed or would you call the moderators Zealots for closing it.

[martymayes]

First note: I dislike "zero tolerance" zealots. ......................... zero tolerance is generally a stupid idea.

Well, they have managed to ban smoking at many other outdoor venues, for example stadium type sporting events. I am not a zealot but if there is a popular vote on the issue, I'll gladly cast my vote to ban smoking at OSH.

When I first went to OSH in the early '80's, there was no smoking on the flight line, period. No food or drink either, I know this because I accidently stepped across the road while holding an ice cream cone. A volunteer quickly jumped me. I was not in the least offended and have no trouble following rules for the event. If I felt I couldn't, then I wouldn't go.

[krw920]

You weren't next to my 39 Waco Cabin on the end of row 63 when 3 a holes lit up within 5 feet of my prop. BAN SMOKING AT AIRVENTURE

If they lit up next to your plane, smoking IS banned in that location. Says it on EVERY wrist band that smoking is prohibited except in designated areas.

[Mayhemxpc]

I have seen the demonstration where a live cigarette was dropped into a pail of diesel and the diesel put the cigarette out. The demonstration then did the same thing with a pail of MOGAS with incendiary effect. It was explained that ignition happened before the cigarette touched the liquid fuel.

In any case, if we want the rules to be enforced we can all play a part, as was suggested earlier. At another event, my airplane had been (over) filled, fuel dripping out the vents, and someone who looked to be more at home at Sturgis than Oshkosh walked up smoking a cigar. I politely asked if he would smoke that close to a race car that was being or had just been fueled. The light went on and he immediately put the cigar out as I said it was the exact same fuel. A polite word can go a long way. If not, then there is usually someone from security close by.

[krw920]

The light went on and he immediately put the cigar out as I said it was the exact same fuel. A polite word can go a long way. If not, then there is usually someone from security close by.

Unfortunately, that light is pretty dim for a lot of smokers.

[Floatsflyer]

At another event, my airplane.....

Sorry to change the subject for just a moment, but thought this was a way to get Chris' attention. This is an Avweb video with Osh 15 highlights. Your O2 may be in it and was curious if it was. Go to 54 seconds in.

http://www.avweb.com/videos/Video-Al...-224558-1.html

[JesseD]

your comments really deserve no response. I have no desire to have a counter argument. Non smokers should not be subjected to second hand smoke period. I think smoking should be banned at Airventure. Why you feel the need to call someone who wants smoking banned at an event names is beyond me. Smoking has been banned in many many public places so I suppose the people responsible for that are Zealots as well right. Grow up. And yes I still believe smoking should be banned at Airventure but note that I understand you feel it is a smokers right to force second hand smoke on others. Does that make you a zealot? This thread should now be closed or would you call the moderators Zealots for closing it.

Your comments really deserve no response. I have no desire to argue with someone who refuses to use facts I like. Non-pilots should not be subjected to Tetra-Ethyl Lead period. I think Airventure should be banned.

Exactly how you sound.

As an ex-smoker I could have ended up one of two ways: anti-smoking zealot or someone who just didn't care if other people did it. I chose the latter. Do I like smoke? No. Am I going to freak out over trace amounts of it at an outdoor venue? Heck no. Just being around an (100LL) airplane as a pilot exposes me to a more lethally carcinogenic / health debilitating chemical(s) than if a group of smokers lit up around me and took turns intentionally blowing smoke in my face. The exhaust of an AvGas plane is about as healthy as handling ether-acetone (gives you a much larger chance liver cancer) without respirator gear and gloves. Do you wear a respirator designed to filter out TEL (and other trace metals) that exist in AvGas? No? I didn't think so. Heck, you'd probably complain about nicotine vaporizers. While I think some have an obnoxious scents added to them, they are far less toxic (again) than AvGas. You seem to have no grasp of this toxicity concept.

Next, man up bucko. You keep harping about all this "I'm forced to inhale second smoke". Nobody is "forcing" you anymore than the good citizens of Oshkosh are "forced" to inhale trace amounts of TEL from the aircraft. Guess what? It isn't a hearts and flowers world. You want to know some of the really nasty things you take into your body everyday? Just from food & drink? Go look at some of the stuff they ban in the EU that isn't banned here in the US, and even they aren't as psychotic as anti-smoking zealots here when it comes to smoking. Example: I swear, the Dutch don't believe in public ashtrays to put out cigarettes (roll eyes) or enough garbage cans in most places, even at large venue events. No, they just pay a street sweeper to sweep up all the garbage, and that's more than just cigarette butts, after the event (farm market, concert, et al.) is completed.

That's my problem with you: You are a zealot. Heck, even more of a zealot than many "nanny state" loving Europeans. I'll never understand this, and can't explain it, except that you are a person who has no relative understanding about toxicity. I understand you as a zealot feel you have the right to force other people to stop doing what you don't like because it offends thee. My warning to you is don't be surprised if a fellow zealot forces you to stop flying an airplane (or Airventure from existing) because they think they have to right to make you stop using 100LL.

[JesseD]

Unfortunately, that light is pretty dim for a lot of smokers.

It's pretty dim for people in general. You know how many people climb all over my car (1949 Kaiser Manhattan) at a car show? Touch it? With multiple signs all over? FFS don't even ask how many parents get offended when I object to their little rapscallions climbing in my car. I used to leave the door open so people could see the seats (you don't need shocks in a Manhattan, the seats are so gosh darn thick) and the interior better. I just had a couple strings holding signs saying do not enter, but feel free to look from the outside. Now? The doors are shut and locked. Unless I'm there I don't even leave the hood up anymore.

I never, ever, touch someone else's plane without permission either. Yes, even the exhibitor planes. I'll go up look around, and if I really want to, ask first. That's not my property, and the way I was raised you ask first. Don't say that to many of the people at Airventure who touch (or climb all over) stuff without asking.

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Edits in bold